Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 14

Author Topic: A Question on Pirating Games  (Read 16745 times)

Cthulhu

  • Bay Watcher
  • A squid
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #90 on: November 24, 2012, 02:46:06 pm »

How often do you see them, though?  I can think of one game with accessible pirate multiplayer, Soldier of Fortune 2.  Dedicated servers that check for an authentic .exe pretty much eliminate multiplayer access for the average pirate.
Logged
Shoes...

freeformschooler

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #91 on: November 24, 2012, 02:47:35 pm »

There's occasionally "cracked"/pirated servers, but that's a dark, lonely road.
Logged

Leatra

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #92 on: November 24, 2012, 02:49:18 pm »

Old games had cracked servers but most games don't have dedicated servers anymore. A great solution to stop pirates from playing multiplayer right? Just put an end to dedicated servers.
Logged

WealthyRadish

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #93 on: November 24, 2012, 02:51:57 pm »

Personally, I don't trust reviewers worth a damn, as most of them are either hopelessly subjective, inexperienced, or biased. While they're moderately useful for getting the general idea of whether a game is decent or not, that's not enough to go on for someone without much disposable income. Demos are rarely demonstrative of the product, if the game even has one, and system requirements listed are too imprecise. Since often times the deciding factor is whether or not I can actually run the game on my machine, I need to play it first.

Eventually I'm sure corporate interests will get their way and the internet will be regulated, but the fact that many people actually want that to happen is rather sad. The hate towards pirates from non-pirates doesn't really make sense, since in the current market not pirating makes you the more irresponsible consumer of the two. Since most big games on PC are just console ports meant to squeeze more money out of the title before making the sequel, why treat it as something worth defending?

Also, while EA is indeed terrible, I'm surprised people aren't more scared of Valve. EA's more or less harmless, since nobody would trust them to do anything big. However, the fact that Valve was able to pull off what is essentially their Origin, and still keep the fanboy hordes intact and growing, is quite frankly terrifying.
Logged

Gamerboy4life

  • Bay Watcher
  • Helicopegasus
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #94 on: November 24, 2012, 02:54:36 pm »

Because it's cool to hate the big companies.

I'mma go on a shooting spree in Walmart, but it's cool because Walmart are a big company, it's not like I'm going and killing the people working in the Mom 'n Pop store down the road.

I don't hate all big companies. I love Bethesda, Bioware, etc.

I hate EA because they fuck shit up wherever they go. They already hijacked Mass Effect 3, and are going to put multiplayer in Dragon age 3.

This shit don't fly. That is why I hate them, not to mention a terrible customer service, trying to buy out Valve, buying out many many other companies and squeezing the money out of them, leaving behind lifeless husks....
Logged
I need to put something interesting here.

Cthulhu

  • Bay Watcher
  • A squid
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #95 on: November 24, 2012, 02:56:24 pm »

What's wrong with multiplayer in Dragon Age 3?

Logged
Shoes...

Dunamisdeos

  • Bay Watcher
  • Duggin was the hero we needed.
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #96 on: November 24, 2012, 03:01:26 pm »

Look, I've posted in other threads my views on the present game industry. About how it's gone downhill for want of greedy people and their money, yadda yadda.

This is part of my way of fighting this. I do not pirate games, enjoy them the whole way through, and then not pay for them. This would not solve the problem. Instead, I am going to ensure that some money grubbing asshat who lies to me about the product I am buying is not encourages in his behavior. And i completely agree with UrbanGiraffe about reviews.

I want higher quality games. I don't want a sequel to be sold to me based solely on the success of its predecessor, for instance. I'm tired of games deliberately mismarketing themselves to sell more copies.

Therefore, by denying publishers money for games I wouldn't want, I discourage them from making more games like that. By buying games I know I enjoy, I push them in that direction. And since me and friends genuinely care about the state of these things, we ALWAYS buy those games. We just did this with Endless space and Borderlands 2. Payed for full versions of each, and even bought the special edition of Endless Space. Those guys made 3 extra sales because of our methods.
Logged
FACT I: Post note art is best art.
FACT II: Dunamisdeos is a forum-certified wordsmith.
FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0

The Darkling Wolf

  • Bay Watcher
  • Arf!
    • View Profile
    • Cataclysm - Dark Days Ahead
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #97 on: November 24, 2012, 03:01:28 pm »

Because it's cool to hate the big companies.

I'mma go on a shooting spree in Walmart, but it's cool because Walmart are a big company, it's not like I'm going and killing the people working in the Mom 'n Pop store down the road.

I don't hate all big companies. I love Bethesda, Bioware, etc.

I hate EA because they fuck shit up wherever they go. They already hijacked Mass Effect 3, and are going to put multiplayer in Dragon age 3.

This shit don't fly. That is why I hate them, not to mention a terrible customer service, trying to buy out Valve, buying out many many other companies and squeezing the money out of them, leaving behind lifeless husks....
I wasn't specifically just referring to you, it was more the general attitude of "It's fine to pirate from big companies, but if you pirate from indie devs then you're satan after having sex with hitler and burning down an orphanage with WP grenades"
Logged
My cabbages!
[Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]

I am fat, eating is my great joy.

itisnotlogical

  • Bay Watcher
  • might be dat boi
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #98 on: November 24, 2012, 03:03:24 pm »

Also, while EA is indeed terrible, I'm surprised people aren't more scared of Valve. EA's more or less harmless, since nobody would trust them to do anything big. However, the fact that Valve was able to pull off what is essentially their Origin, and still keep the fanboy hordes intact and growing, is quite frankly terrifying.

Steam offers an extremely wide variety of games (not just Valve games) in a convenient, easy-to-use manner. They go on sale very often, meaning it is easy to get good prices on games you want. Valve makes extremely good games, such as Half-Life and Team Fortress 2. Also, they don't mine data from your computer.
Logged
This game is Curtain Fire Shooting Game.
Girls do their best now and are preparing. Please watch warmly until it is ready.

Cthulhu

  • Bay Watcher
  • A squid
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #99 on: November 24, 2012, 03:05:52 pm »

Look, I've posted in other threads my views on the present game industry. About how it's gone downhill for want of greedy people and their money, yadda yadda.

This is part of my way of fighting this. I do not pirate games, enjoy them the whole way through, and then not pay for them. This would not solve the problem. Instead, I am going to ensure that some money grubbing asshat who lies to me about the product I am buying is not encourages in his behavior. And i completely agree with UrbanGiraffe about reviews.

I want higher quality games. I don't want a sequel to be sold to me based solely on the success of its predecessor, for instance. I'm tired of games deliberately mismarketing themselves to sell more copies.

Therefore, by denying publishers money for games I wouldn't want, I discourage them from making more games like that. By buying games I know I enjoy, I push them in that direction. And since me and friends genuinely care about the state of these things, we ALWAYS buy those games. We just did this with Endless space and Borderlands 2. Payed for full versions of each, and even bought the special edition of Endless Space. Those guys made 3 extra sales because of our methods.

This justification doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me, when regarding piracy.  Voting with your wallet is all well and good.  In fact, it's great.  Despite what the government says, corporations aren't people.  Their only purpose is making money, and money is the only language they understand.  I just don't see how piracy fits in.  Do you pirate games you don't like?  Why not just not buy them?

If anything, that kind of piracy is what gets us nasty DRM.  Like I said, the corporation doesn't get your silly morals, and it doesn't know you pirated out of protest.  All it sees is "This guy played the game without paying for it."

UrbanGiraffe's post just reads "Aaaaaah corporations!  Aaaaaah!" to me.
Logged
Shoes...

Gamerboy4life

  • Bay Watcher
  • Helicopegasus
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #100 on: November 24, 2012, 03:06:26 pm »

Because it's cool to hate the big companies.

I'mma go on a shooting spree in Walmart, but it's cool because Walmart are a big company, it's not like I'm going and killing the people working in the Mom 'n Pop store down the road.

I don't hate all big companies. I love Bethesda, Bioware, etc.

I hate EA because they fuck shit up wherever they go. They already hijacked Mass Effect 3, and are going to put multiplayer in Dragon age 3.

This shit don't fly. That is why I hate them, not to mention a terrible customer service, trying to buy out Valve, buying out many many other companies and squeezing the money out of them, leaving behind lifeless husks....
I wasn't specifically just referring to you, it was more the general attitude of "It's fine to pirate from big companies, but if you pirate from indie devs then you're satan after having sex with hitler and burning down an orphanage with WP grenades"

No, my attitude is to support what you like. If you like a game, pay for it, so they make more. Pirating it does no good.

Though I do have no qualms with anyone pirating from EA. I might be cliche in saying this, and many many people will also say this, but I hope it burns to the ground. I know it isn't the ONLY problem with the gaming industry, but damn, it's a big one.
Logged
I need to put something interesting here.

Sirus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Resident trucker/goddess/ex-president.
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #101 on: November 24, 2012, 03:07:27 pm »

Also, while EA is indeed terrible, I'm surprised people aren't more scared of Valve. EA's more or less harmless, since nobody would trust them to do anything big. However, the fact that Valve was able to pull off what is essentially their Origin, and still keep the fanboy hordes intact and growing, is quite frankly terrifying.

Steam offers an extremely wide variety of games (not just Valve games) in a convenient, easy-to-use manner. They go on sale very often, meaning it is easy to get good prices on games you want. Valve makes extremely good games, such as Half-Life and Team Fortress 2. Also, they don't mine data from your computer.
Plus they've been in service for quite some time and offer decent customer support, not to mention the player community that can be very helpful at times.
Logged
Quote from: Max White
And lo! Sirus did drive his mighty party truck unto Vegas, and it was good.

Star Wars: Age of Rebellion OOC Thread

Shadow of the Demon Lord - OOC Thread - IC Thread

jhxmt

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #102 on: November 24, 2012, 03:16:30 pm »

All the talk of unreliable reviewers and lack of demos put me in mind of an article I read a while back, which I can't find now, but this snippet from this Wikipedia page pretty much covers it:
Quote from: Wiki
The paper by Akerlof describes how the interaction between quality heterogeneity and asymmetric information can lead to the disappearance of a market where guarantees are indefinite. In this model, as quality is undistinguishable beforehand by the buyer (due to the asymmetry of information), incentives exist for the seller to pass off low-quality goods as higher-quality ones. The buyer, however, takes this incentive into consideration, and takes the quality of the goods to be uncertain. Only the average quality of the goods will be considered, which in turn will have the side effect that goods that are above average in terms of quality will be driven out of the market. This mechanism is repeated until a no-trade equilibrium is reached.

As a consequence of the mechanism described in this paper, markets may fail to exist altogether in certain situations involving quality uncertainty. Examples given in Akerlof's paper include the market for used cars, the death of formal credit markets in developing countries, and the difficulties that the elderly encounter in buying health insurance. However, not all players in a given market will follow the same rules or have the same aptitude of assessing quality. So there will always be a distinct advantage for some vendors to offer low-quality goods to the less-informed segment of a market that, on the whole, appears to be of reasonable quality and have reasonable guarantees of certainty. This is part of the basis for the idiom, buyer beware.

This is likely the basis for the idiom that an informed consumer is a better consumer. An example of this might be the subjective quality of fine food and wine. Individual consumers know best what they prefer to eat, and quality is almost always assessed in fine establishments by smell and taste before they pay. That is, if a customer in a fine establishment orders a lobster and the meat is not fresh, he can send the lobster back to the kitchen and refuse to pay for it. However, a definition of 'highest quality' for food eludes providers. Thus, a large variety of better quality and higher priced restaurants are supported.

This would also seem to be the case for some of the more egregious examples already mentioned (many from EA) - the potential buyer is aware that they can't rely on the sales information (biased/paid-off reviews, poorly representative or even no demo, etc) and so treats the game as being of "unknown" quality.  In line with the article above, this drives overall quality within the market down.

In this instance, pirating the game could be seen as an effort to get clearer, more transparent information about the potential purchase.  The example of taking a car for a test drive was already given (although in this instance it's more like sneaking into the sales garage at night and waving a magic wand over your chosen vehicle, instantly duplicating a copy for you to drive around).

The danger is then, as others have pointed out, that you might decide (a) yes, actually, this car isn't a lemon, it's actually a decent car and (b) hell, why go and buy it now, I've got a magically-copied car of awesomeness!

Piracy allows trial of games that would otherwise be of uncertain quality.  This makes the market work more efficiently.  Piracy also allows good products to drop in sales along with bad products, however, because you're not going to buy a game you know is bad, and you probably won't buy a game you know is good but have already pirated.  Probably.  Individual morality will dictate, obviously.

So, the $64m question is: what's better for the market - asymmetrical information that drags down the overall product quality, or symmetrical information that drags down the total sales of any quality?
Logged
Quote from: beefsupreme
Try slaughtering a ton of animals, meat makes less decisions than animals.

Why Your Ramps Don't Work
How To Breach A Volcano Safely

WealthyRadish

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #103 on: November 24, 2012, 03:23:29 pm »

Currently, yeah, Steam is a good thing for the PC market. The sales, indie exposure, and convenience are all well and good, but it's where things could go from here that has me a bit worried. Any games they release now are just advertisements for Steam, and they're in an alarming position to out-compete any other developer/publisher by releasing high quality products with business models that can't be matched. TF2 going free to play is a good example... they didn't continue updating it out of consumer loyalty or anything, it was just a means of getting more people on Steam. The same goes for DoTA2 and CS:GO... no other company would've been able to match those titles' quality without also going free to play (or underpricing the game, in Counterstrike's case). Valve could very well release Half Life 3 completely free, and no other company would be able to compete.

While if I were to trust a company to do what Steam's done, it would be Valve, giving any single company too much power will end up hurting the market. The fact that Steam locks all games purchased exclusively to their service means that we could very well enter a monopoly situation, with all large PC game developers being dependent on Valve to sell their titles well. Many games currently need to be released on Steam to be financially viable, which I think is a bad place for the market to be in.

Also, it means more F2P shit. So sick of it. But I guess that's beside the point...
Logged

Dunamisdeos

  • Bay Watcher
  • Duggin was the hero we needed.
    • View Profile
Re: A Question on Pirating Games
« Reply #104 on: November 24, 2012, 03:40:23 pm »

My method does nothing but ensure that I only buy what I will enjoy, and make absolutely certain that someone trying to wheedle money out of me with halfassed games can't do it. I'm not interested in stealing outright, I make enough money to buy what I want.
Logged
FACT I: Post note art is best art.
FACT II: Dunamisdeos is a forum-certified wordsmith.
FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 14