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[Sappho]

Okay, I started playing an outcast and it was WAY more fun. All I had to worry about was keeping myself alive and earning enough money. It was disappointing when I somehow found myself in a refuge and suddenly it cost me arkhe and merit to go exploring and such. And if I couldn't find a way to explore (no merit, for example), I just sat there forever losing my arkhe.

It would be nice if there were an option to leave your home and become a wanderer again. That part is the most fun for me.

Also, when you're in your home I don't see any way to find out what your weariness is without clicking "rest," at which point it appears impossible to go back. Am I missing something?

A back button in general would be nice. So often I mis-click and end up in the wrong action, but I can't go back and choose a different one.

[EuchreJack]

Good point.  If you have no money and no merits, you're essentially screwed until the next vote, and you only get like .3 merits or two journeys out of that, assuming you're lucky enough to get the "meet with other nobles prior" event, which isn't at all certain.

Since the player isn't really suppose to be absolutely alone in representing their faction, maybe random events could trigger when the player has negative Arkhe that give a small Arkhe or merit boost?  It would help out to get random "Aid packages from home".

[Vaccean]

There shouldn't be any reason to appear suddenly at the refuge without buying a base for 100 arkhe if you are playing bugfix3. If there is that's a bug.

You can get some merit by contacting lobbies that owe you favours in the correspondence menu and requesting publicity or economic aids from them if the option is available, but yeah, I can see that the lack of a steady source of merit is a serious problem.


In the short term this could be easily fixed by changing the costs of visiting enemy territories to something renewable like tension or weariness, which still makes sense. In the long term lobbies could afford to be more helpful to their faction buddies and give those aid packages and we could even have fabled treasures, probably real and probably not, for players in desperate situations to pursuit.

[a1s]

You can get some merit by contacting lobbies that owe you favours in the correspondence menu and requesting publicity or economic aids from them if the option is available, but yeah, I can see that the lack of a steady source of merit is a serious problem.

Maybe you could also get one of the lobbies to "invest" in you- you get (your debt + 10) arkhe, but you cancel all the favors they had to you and for each 10 arkhe over your favor count they gave you you now owe them a favor (whenever they would normally offer you a favor, you must accept and one of the favors you owe is removed)

So what do romance actually do?

[EuchreJack]

You can get some merit by contacting lobbies that owe you favours in the correspondence menu and requesting publicity or economic aids from them if the option is available, but yeah, I can see that the lack of a steady source of merit is a serious problem.


In the short term this could be easily fixed by changing the costs of visiting enemy territories to something renewable like tension or weariness, which still makes sense. In the long term lobbies could afford to be more helpful to their faction buddies and give those aid packages and we could even have fabled treasures, probably real and probably not, for players in desperate situations to pursuit.

Well, lobbies are sort of a roulette wheel.  Sometimes they all owe you favors and can give you whatever you need...and sometimes none of them offer the one resource you most desperately need.

Having an option to travel to unowned territories for tension and weariness if you don't have the .1 merit makes sense, it might also automatically trigger a fight with the inhabitants.  It's better than slowly-but-surely waiting for someone to attack, either to extract money or merits if you win, or to lose your shelter and debt.  Win-win!   

So what do romance actually do?

Reduce weariness.   
Well, I've seen some also reduce local tension, and might have seen one give attribute training, but the most regular result is random weariness reduction.

[Sappho]

There shouldn't be any reason to appear suddenly at the refuge without buying a base for 100 arkhe if you are playing bugfix3. If there is that's a bug.

Oh, really? In that case, I've been encountering this bug a lot. At least 3 or 4 times, while changing locations as an outcast with much less than 100 Arkhe, I have suddenly found myself in a refuge. I had just been assuming that there was a random chance for you to find a base while traveling, but I'd prefer to have a choice about it for sure.

I think weariness makes more sense than merit for visiting territories. But if you make it so that the inhabitants automatically attack, you basically make it impossible to go anywhere anyway, for an outcast. Unless I'm missing something huge, I haven't found any way to increase my fighting abilities. Every once in a while one of my actions boosts my intelligence or mobility a tiny bit, and I do find weapons now and then, but they are never stronger than 10 or maybe 15. The enemies I'm fighting, on the other hand, have weapons with strength over 100 or even 200 - one-hit kills every time. I figure I must be missing something, but I can't figure out what. I mean, I get that as an outcast I start off far weaker than the other side, and that it is meant to be very difficult, but if it's impossible, then there's no point in playing. There should be *some* chance of success, and some reliable way to get stronger. And yes, I am strongly in favor of random events that give you a little something. It doesn't have to be much, just enough to keep you from having to sit there waiting for death for turn after turn after turn.

I spent a couple hours playing last night and found myself in an Arkhe trap. The most I could earn from actions in territories was about 6-8 Arkhe, and on average it was more like 1.5 Arkhe per turn. This brought up my weariness, of course, so every few turns I'd have to rest for a while, during which time I would lose 1 Arkhe per turn. Over a period of about 100 turns, I only increased my Arkhe by about 20. Then, whenever It would seem like I might be earning enough Arkhe to actually do something with it (negotiate with territories or make investments), something would happen - a vote, or an attack - and I'd lose most or all of it. I've managed to recruit 4 Revanents to work for me, and I've got them all working on improving the base so I don't end up homeless again too soon, and I set them all to "training" but that doesn't seem to be doing anything. They are gaining EX but that doesn't seem to be actually doing anything to the rest of their stats and abilities.

I am still lost on the votes. Every time there is a vote, I check the background of the group who called the vote, and it seems they're almost always on the opposing side. Most of the votes pass, which changes the power of the different groups, but I just can't keep track of who is who or why I should care. In any case, I never have more than 1 or 2 merits at most, which doesn't make a difference to the voting. Sometimes they result in me personally losing money, which confuses me. I try each time to approach some group for favors, but they always reject me because apparently everyone hates a philanthropist. I made some contacts with rich aristocrats and even got a couple of loans of Arkhe, but I put them in investments which always turn out to be utter failures and I lose all the money.

Meanwhile, each turn there are more and more of the opposing side and fewer and fewer of my side in the population. I'm still focused on survival, really, and I have absolutely no idea how to influence the population. I know it has something to do with lobbies, but try as I might, I can't figure out what I'm supposed to do. There's only a few thousand of my side left, and I'm sure that before long I'll lose the game because of that, which is a bummer because I feel like I'm doing pretty well under the circumstances. I started with nothing and now I have a base and followers and defenses and a few pieces of Macguffin and some rich friends, and pretty soon the world will end anyway. : (

[Vaccean]

I went ahead and forced meritless players to sneak into territories instead of visiting them, costing instead 3 local tension. That's the average tension reduction for adventurers so it should be enough to make them stop and keep a low profile occasionally without hindering as much as weariness would.

I'm also starting to think that instead of random aid packages lobbies could approach players in need to bail them out in exchange for some dirty work, with dire consequences for failure to comply.

Unless I'm missing something huge, I haven't found any way to increase my fighting abilities. Every once in a while one of my actions boosts my intelligence or mobility a tiny bit, and I do find weapons now and then, but they are never stronger than 10 or maybe 15. The enemies I'm fighting, on the other hand, have weapons with strength over 100 or even 200 - one-hit kills every time.

Very rarely, you can get such attacks for your own character in certain territories if you have high enough stats, but overall it's better to leave fighting large units to other large units, the best you can expect is a draw.

I set them all to "training" but that doesn't seem to be doing anything. They are gaining EX but that doesn't seem to be actually doing anything to the rest of their stats and abilities.

EX is a multiplier of every other stat. If an unit has 50 EX, it'll be 50% more efficient at everything. Descriptions show the base values instead.

Every time there is a vote, I check the background of the group who called the vote, and it seems they're almost always on the opposing side. Most of the votes pass, which changes the power of the different groups, but I just can't keep track of who is who or why I should care.

In a nutsell, as an adventurer you want to improve the immigration of friendly colonists, keep friendly lobbies from losing too much power, and raise the overall economy, which affects the earnings you'll make while working everywhere. The tendencies come in play mostly if you want to engage in trade or exploit a territory.

I made some contacts with rich aristocrats and even got a couple of loans of Arkhe, but I put them in investments which always turn out to be utter failures and I lose all the money.

That was actually a solid plan, but a bit of a gamble. If you have enough merit, to increase your chances of a successful investment, you can observe them a few times before actually investing. This will give you an idea of which combinations work best, as the chances are randomized at the start of each game.

There's only a few thousand of my side left, and I'm sure that before long I'll lose the game because of that, which is a bummer because I feel like I'm doing pretty well under the circumstances.

Friendly lobbies will tend to react to counteract the disparity of population, but I believe they are not acting strongly enough.

I'd like more opinions on this to perhaps nerf the effects of immigration or make lobbies react more strongly.

[EuchreJack]

There's only a few thousand of my side left, and I'm sure that before long I'll lose the game because of that, which is a bummer because I feel like I'm doing pretty well under the circumstances.

Friendly lobbies will tend to react to counteract the disparity of population, but I believe they are not acting strongly enough.

I'd like more opinions on this to perhaps nerf the effects of immigration or make lobbies react more strongly.

I've also noticed the independent nobles also seem to vote to counteract any disparity of population, although that might be idle speculation on my part.

The thing about lobbies is that they work together more to further their interests than their faction.  So if the opposing faction has two lobbies that share an interest, that faction will generally get stronger.  If only one of the friendly lobbies shares that interest and one friendly lobbies generally has an interest that is generally opposite of that interest, and the third lobby has no interest overlap and a low belligerence, then the opposing faction is just going to steamroll your faction.

The lobby screen seems to indicate that lobbies that are too strong or too weak tend to be replaced with a random lobby of the same faction.  If that actually happened, it would balance things out a lot (currently, I haven't noticed any real difference, although I did once see an event for a lobby that was too small, although I forget what happened, I think they just disappeared w/out replacement).

Like I said before, immigration change is generally a polarizing vote where everyone votes along faction lines.  But if one faction has the stronger lobbies, they'll control the vote either way.  And if a lobby proposes a immigration change against their faction's interests, it will almost certainly go through (three opposing lobbies plus one allied lobby vs. two allied lobbies?  Vote approved!).

[Sappho]

Thank you for all the responses and explanations, but... Jesus, I feel like I'm in an economics class. And I could never get my head around even the parts of economics that they called "basic" and "introductory." I'm still completely lost on the lobbies and groups and votes. I mean... Completely.

Maybe I should be asking more specific questions.

How can I tell which groups (lobbies?) are on which side? I know that if one of them proposes a vote, I can click on the info thing and check their details and it will say it there. But what about at other times? When I click the "interests" button, it just lists the groups with the areas they are concerned with, nothing about influence or court.

How can I get groups to be more or less powerful? The only interactions I've seen so far are to approach one of them to cash in favors or offer gifts, approach them before a vote asking for favors (I always get rejected so I never have any favors to cash in), or, on the rare occasion I actually have favors, I can use them to decide their vote on something (although I don't know what the vote actually does so I never do this).

When votes take place, it always says it will help one thing and hurt another. But the results of the votes are always one of a few things: group X gains merit, group X loses merit, X of (my side) have left / switched to the other side (I've almost never seen it the other way around), I lose Arkhe, the economy goes down (I've never once seen it go up). I don't see how these things are related, how to predict what a vote will do, or, in any case, how I can make a difference. What kinds of votes will help my faction? How can I tell when a vote will help me, and how can I make a difference to the outcome of that vote?

EuchreJack says immigration is generally a polarizing vote, but in my experience, immigration of my side consistently goes down, and quickly. My side seems to decrease with every turn, and I haven't discovered a single thing I can do about it. Over hundreds of turns, I've only seen the opposing side go down a handful of times. Presumably I'm overwhelmingly outnumbered from the start with absolutely no power to change things.

And when you say I need to use strong units to fight strong units... Where do I get strong units? I've figured out how to save revanents and add them to my group, but I don't know how to make them strong. (And I think I remember reading somewhere that you can get units from elsewhere, but... where?) I set them to train but I have no idea how strong that makes them. Is there any chance the "character sheets" for your followers could have the math done on them? As in, instead of showing the base numbers and their XP and leaving the player to try to calculate the new numbers, couldn't you just show the actual numbers? Maybe like Current(Base) or something? I'm really quite mathematically challenged and when I look at it the way it is now, the numbers just swim and morph and I have no idea what I'm looking it.

Obviously I'm interested in the game and I like it (and I hope I don't come off as being whiny or anything, just trying to figure things out), but I'm still lost and confused. It seems that when you start as an outcast, not only do you start with absolutely nothing, but you also start with a time limit. If you don't manage to gather up your resources and get rich fast enough, then it doesn't matter how well you do, because once the timer goes DING you lose anyway, because your faction has lost all its members. Again, I understand that starting as an outcast is meant to be difficult, but since the wandering and survival are my favorite parts of the game, it would be nice if it wasn't completely impossible to win this way. At the moment, it seems to be. At the very least, could the timer be slowed down a bit on outcast mode? If my faction is losing 5-40 people every turn, my time limit is really pretty short, all things considered. I mean, I often end up stuck at a lighthouse for 50 turns, gaining weariness every turn and waiting for a chance to escape. I can't imagine it being possible to win like this, no matter how lucky I get. If there weren't the pressing time limit, I wouldn't mind - it would be a lot more fun. But as it is, it seems to be completely futile and useless to even try, which makes it tedious after a while.

EDIT: For example, in this situation, the Edelweiss Conglomerate is loyal to the court, but according to the text that came right after this, this proposal would greatly benefit influenced immigration if passed (I am stalwart in this game). I see that my options are to approach one lobby looking for favors (I tried, and they rejected me for being philanthropist, as always happens). Why is this lobby the one I can approach? And where can I find information about them? I can only see info about the Edelweiss Conglomerate. Finally, the second option, to push my case for 0.1 merits (which is all I have)... What does that mean? What does that do?

Spoiler: Image (click to show/hide)

[EuchreJack]

I'm doing this from memory, so bear with me...

How can I tell which groups (lobbies?) are on which side? I know that if one of them proposes a vote, I can click on the info thing and check their details and it will say it there. But what about at other times? When I click the "interests" button, it just lists the groups with the areas they are concerned with, nothing about influence or court.

Correspondence->Lobbies->Click on specific lobby.  You'll get the bio for the lobby.  Look specifically for whether they support the Court or the Influence.  It would be nice if we could check up on the lobbies during the votes, but for now you sort of need to make a notepad document which overviews the lobbies.  Also, whether or not you can schmooze with them before elections is determined by your reputation (click "bio" in the right-hand corner to find you how you're perceived), and that must match the lobby's reputation (on the lobby bio, ruthless/philanthropist/hedonist).

How can I get groups to be more or less powerful? The only interactions I've seen so far are to approach one of them to cash in favors or offer gifts, approach them before a vote asking for favors (I always get rejected so I never have any favors to cash in), or, on the rare occasion I actually have favors, I can use them to decide their vote on something (although I don't know what the vote actually does so I never do this).

When votes take place, it always says it will help one thing and hurt another. But the results of the votes are always one of a few things: group X gains merit, group X loses merit, X of (my side) have left / switched to the other side (I've almost never seen it the other way around), I lose Arkhe, the economy goes down (I've never once seen it go up). I don't see how these things are related, how to predict what a vote will do, or, in any case, how I can make a difference. What kinds of votes will help my faction? How can I tell when a vote will help me, and how can I make a difference to the outcome of that vote?

Look at the interests from the interests screen.  Each vote says which issue it benefits and which it hurts.  If a lobby has the interest that benefits, they'll gain merits.  If the lobby has an interest that hurts, that lobby with lose merits.  You really need to check out all the individual lobbies prior to the vote and jot down their faction affiliation.  When a vote comes up, determine which lobbies benefit and which lobbies are hurt by the proposal.  Add up all benefiting lobbies as "for" and all hurt lobbies as "against".  That will tell you roughly whether or not it will pass.  If passing hurts more lobbies loyal to your faction than helps, use a favor to force your lazy allied lobbies to actually help one another out, instead of just voting blank.

This is assuming you don't need the lobby's favor for something more important, like merits or arkhe...

EuchreJack says immigration is generally a polarizing vote, but in my experience, immigration of my side consistently goes down, and quickly. My side seems to decrease with every turn, and I haven't discovered a single thing I can do about it. Over hundreds of turns, I've only seen the opposing side go down a handful of times. Presumably I'm overwhelmingly outnumbered from the start with absolutely no power to change things.

Each territory has an opposing unit that can randomly take actions, one of which lowers your faction's population.  Since there are a ton of territories (more than the total number of units you can even control), the player faction tends to take the brunt of population loss.

And when you say I need to use strong units to fight strong units... Where do I get strong units? I've figured out how to save revanents and add them to my group, but I don't know how to make them strong. (And I think I remember reading somewhere that you can get units from elsewhere, but... where?) I set them to train but I have no idea how strong that makes them. Is there any chance the "character sheets" for your followers could have the math done on them? As in, instead of showing the base numbers and their XP and leaving the player to try to calculate the new numbers, couldn't you just show the actual numbers? Maybe like Current(Base) or something? I'm really quite mathematically challenged and when I look at it the way it is now, the numbers just swim and morph and I have no idea what I'm looking it.

Correspondence->that thing that requires 1 merit.  Use more Arkhe for more options.  Click on the units and look for one with lots of RES.  They're all expensive, you'll want at least 200 Arkhe before bothering, and that doesn't include Arkhe for more options (bonus Arkhe cost 10, 20, 40, if I recall).

EDIT: For example, in this situation, the Edelweiss Conglomerate is loyal to the court

No, they're not.  They'll loyal the the Influence, as per their bio.

Have you tried just winning through artifact acquisition and ignoring everything else?  Artifacts are powerful, and before closing out the era, you can really play around with them.

EDIT: Also, try starting as a Governor.  You get a different starting tutorial that explains hiring units, and enough Arkhe to do so.

[Vaccean]

I've also noticed the independent nobles also seem to vote to counteract any disparity of population, although that might be idle speculation on my part.

Actually, that didn't happen, but it's a great idea, I'm going to work on that right away.

It seems that when you start as an outcast, not only do you start with absolutely nothing, but you also start with a time limit. If you don't manage to gather up your resources and get rich fast enough, then it doesn't matter how well you do, because once the timer goes DING you lose anyway, because your faction has lost all its members. Again, I understand that starting as an outcast is meant to be difficult, but since the wandering and survival are my favorite parts of the game, it would be nice if it wasn't completely impossible to win this way.

I also hate and try to avoid time limits in fact. Ideally, the population should fluctuate while lobbies act and react against each other. Anything reminiscent to a time limit is a failure of balance really.

[EuchreJack]

Well, the only time that the opposing faction almost won by population was after they resorted to nuking the colony repeatedly (artifact unlock from my previous death).  Other than that, I've never really been too afraid of loss due to population, to the tune of still having lots of time on turn 1000.

That being said, it might be nice if the game sort of slowed down with random enemy activity and votes while the player is outcast, essentially reflecting that the opposing faction doesn't really know if the player is alive or dead, and thus is taking it easy.

Although I do like my units still acting frequently when I'm outcast, as their fundraising is usually what gets me the funds for a new shelter, lol.

[Sappho]

Thanks for all the detailed responses to my questions.

In that case, there is a definite lack of balance when I play. I consistently see my side losing population/power and the other side gaining it. Also, I am attacked really frequently, with no way to defend myself. I like the suggestion that attacks not come very often when you're outcast. Every once in a while, maybe someone stumbles upon you, but if you're outcast and living in a ditch somewhere, it doesn't make a lot of sense that the enemy is hunting you down all the time.

I tried starting a new game, this time as a merchant. I'm finding it to not be any easier. I started with a lot of money, but it costs a lot of money to get my trade license, and then the trade doesn't bring in a whole lot of income per turn. Actually, with various random events, I often lost Arkhe overall during each turn (and didn't gain any merit as a result). I used up my merit looking for investment opportunities, then investing in the best ones. A couple of them did pay off, but of course some did not. After a while I started to realize that my Arkhe reserves were steadily decreasing, and I wasn't gaining any merit overall, so I couldn't do any more investing. Then suddenly my trade route expired and I found I did not have enough Arkhe to start another one. I tried earning Arkhe from simple jobs in the territories, but those never earn more than a few per turn -- and meanwhile, without my trade route, I was losing 8 arkhe per day just in my base. That was a little confusing - as an adventurer I got -1 per day, but as a merchant -8. Why is that?

So my Arkhe reserves steadily decreased, my merit stayed static at .2, and things were generally going very badly. Finally I got a string of lucky breaks, and managed to get my merit back up over 1 at the same time one of my old investments paid off. After starting back up my trade route, I had just enough money to try another investment, so I went back to the menu for that, and then I'm pretty sure I encountered some type of bug.

I clicked "investments" and "research for .25," then chose a territory from the list. Nothing happened - it just brought me back to the investments menu. My merit was still the same. I tried it again, and again it just brought me back to the menu. Then I tried a different territory, and the same thing happened. I decided to leave the investments menu and try again from scratch. As I hit "return" until I was back in the correspondence menu, I saw that suddenly my merit had dropped down to .1 again. So apparently it was spending the merit to research investments, but not showing any results (or deducting the merit from the total on the screen). If there were no opportunities found, then surely it should say "no opportunities found" and deduct the merit used on the spot, right?

So now I'm back where I started. .1 merit left, and not much money, so I could explore, but I'm not seeing the point. I only tried this for about an hour so I'm sure there's still plenty to learn about being a merchant, but I'm feeling rather lost again. I still can't figure out how to actually increase my arkhe reserves consistently. Other entities keep approaching me asking for loans of several thousand, but I never have more than a couple hundred at a time. When choosing my trade license I went with the area in the colony tab that had the biggest number next to it. That means it's the strongest trade, right? And when there are votes, I try to increase that one, or at least avoid reducing it, but even when it increases, my profits don't change, so I guess I'm not sure how that works. I think I might give up on being a merchant for now and either go back to outcast again, or try the other one, can't remember what it's called now.

In any case, knowing that this is essentially a game where I need to have a real-life notebook and pencil standing by to keep notes makes a big difference to my understanding. I haven't seen a game that doesn't simply let you access basic information anytime since the early 90s. It would be great if, in the future, the interface could be adjusted a bit so that you could always access the basic information about lobbies, colonies, your individual workers, etc.

Also, you say that the lobbies I can approach before a vote are the ones with the same reputation as me - but I am almost always rejected when I try to approach them, because of my reputation. Is that a bug?

A suggestion regarding merit: Maybe there could be an option, staying home for a turn, to do something that has a chance of earning you some merit?

EuchreJack, it's interesting reading what you post about your experiences, because they are so different from mine. You say your units' fundraising usually gets you funds for a new shelter when you're an outcast, but I've only had that happen once to me in hundreds of turns (and it was only a few arkhe that I gained). I wonder why that is. Maybe it's an issue of the RNG being different on different operating systems, like in Starbound? What OS do you have? (I'm using Windows 7.)

[Xotes]

I often lost Arkhe overall during each turn (and didn't gain any merit as a result).

Your merit goes up by 0.1 every turn so long as you've got Arkhe in your bank. Your income has nothing to do with it. If you keep going around unowned territories every turn, you essentially spend that little bit of merit on travel costs. If you just Stay Home, as per the option, you'll get your point of merit, unless your Arkhe reserves are in the negatives.

Also, you say that the lobbies I can approach before a vote are the ones with the same reputation as me - but I am almost always rejected when I try to approach them, because of my reputation. Is that a bug?

You start off with an Unknown reputation. You need to find a territory that has a Philanthropist/whatever reputation action you want and do that a few times, like how buying 'products' at Pervert's Alley a few times gets you the Hedonist reputation. Once your rep is established, then you can consistently approach lobbies with matching reputations and come out ahead.

A suggestion regarding merit: Maybe there could be an option, staying home for a turn, to do something that has a chance of earning you some merit?

That's actually possible with certain Renascents. Thiannah (or however her name is spelled), for example, occasionally has a 'Write an article' option you can take with her when you stay home, which gives you .5 merits.

[Sappho]

Also, you say that the lobbies I can approach before a vote are the ones with the same reputation as me - but I am almost always rejected when I try to approach them, because of my reputation. Is that a bug?

You start off with an Unknown reputation. You need to find a territory that has a Philanthropist/whatever reputation action you want and do that a few times, like how buying 'products' at Pervert's Alley a few times gets you the Hedonist reputation. Once your rep is established, then you can start approaching lobbies with consistent success.

If that is how it's supposed to work, then it's a bug. I had a reputation as a philanthropist. When votes came up, there were generally a few lobbies I could approach looking for favor. Almost every single time I did, they said I was rejected because of my reputation as a philanthropist.

Regarding the getting merit at home, that's great that it is possible under certain conditions now, but I was thinking of being an outcast without a lot of resources. You finally get a base, then you run out of merits and have no money (or even negative money). You can't travel, can't do anything. Just sit at home waiting to be attacked and killed. It would be good to have an option that is always there as a last resort, maybe something that costs weariness, that has a chance of giving you merit.