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[UnicodingUnicorn]

> so mods and such can actually update themselves, DFHack can catch up, and we can have a fairly stable run for a little while.
Personally I am going to cap it at .40.13 for Cybernetics and Drugs on Prisoners Effects (DoPE).

> PipBucks
That is actually a fairly good idea. Even having half the bonuses of SATS will help stop hunting being such a death sentence.

Ok, found out how to make reaction-trigger syndromes work, so those should be done by the end of today. I once again repeat myself, to those kind enough to help test the DFHack, does it crash upon abandonment/retirement and do the PipBucks work?

And another question, are you okay if I remove the Magma Gunsmith's Forge? All the other Magma forges have been removed.

[Destyvirago]

> so mods and such can actually update themselves, DFHack can catch up, and we can have a fairly stable run for a little while.
Personally I am going to cap it at .40.13 for Cybernetics and Drugs on Prisoners Effects (DoPE).

> PipBucks
That is actually a fairly good idea. Even having half the bonuses of SATS will help stop hunting being such a death sentence.

Sounds like a good idea. Normal citizens get a weak SATS as standard, but we can find Military PipBucks for the soldiers. As it is normal citizen ponies are heavily outmatched by most of the fauna they encounter that I don't believe it will be unbalanced.

Ok, found out how to make reaction-trigger syndromes work, so those should be done by the end of today. I once again repeat myself, to those kind enough to help test the DFHack, does it crash upon abandonment/retirement and do the PipBucks work?

I'm gonna try the latest version you have posted this weekend. Had a lot of work recently and haven't had the time to play as much as I have wished for

And another question, are you okay if I remove the Magma Gunsmith's Forge? All the other Magma forges have been removed.

This sounds like a good idea actually. I actually had some thoughts about the resource system. Basically since the Stable is supposed to be a modern hi-tech facility and the Stable dwellers themselves have had access to modern science it doesn't make sense for them to rely so much on coal to power most things. What if we where to change many workshops to instead of needing coal they would use spark batteries instead. So a "Powered Forge" would need a charged spark battery + metal to make an item, instead of coal + metal. When the operation was complete you would get the item + an depleted spark battery that can be recharged for new use. This way we can simulate electricity used to power modern tools. I think this could be a novel way to show how the stable is a hi-tech bastion in a wasteland. Charged spark batteries could then be used for  powered versions of most forges and Kilns so we could have "Powered Glassmelters" ect. We then might need new ways to recharge spark batteries, so an early stable that doesn't have a power talisman, might make a Coal turbine that uses 1 coal to recharge 2 or 3 spark batteries.

Well, I have rambled enough for now 

[Splint]

Coal turbine (I like,) and water pump.
Pump fills barrels with an undrinkable dirty water liquid.
Barrel of dirty water and coal are taken with the batteries, and boom. Get an empty barrel and charged batteries. Seems doable to me. For bonus theme points, only build the pump workshop next to a water source.

I'm also in approval of the battery powered workshops idea. Corrosion made use of one or two as I recall.

[Destyvirago]

Ok, found out how to make reaction-trigger syndromes work, so those should be done by the end of today. I once again repeat myself, to those kind enough to help test the DFHack, does it crash upon abandonment/retirement and do the PipBucks work?

Say, the latest version I downloaded didn't have DFHack installed. Is there a version I should download separately or can you make a version for download that has DFHack included?

[UnicodingUnicorn]

I posted it on another page since it was no really under the mod persay, tuhere should be a link within the previous two pages or so.

[Maklak]

> Basically since the Stable is supposed to be a modern hi-tech facility and the Stable dwellers themselves have had access to modern science it doesn't make sense for them to rely so much on coal to power most things. [...]
1) The Zebra war was about coal (and gems). Stable-tec ponies use spark reactors, though.
2) There already is a prismatic smelter that takes a power talisman to build and doesn't require fuel, except for steel production (which needs carbon).
3) With the trees update we get more charcoal, so I don't have that big of a problem with ponies burning trees for fuel rather than taxing their ancient generators even more. Although canonically, trees in most places are dead.

I think it would be a good idea to add to the prismatic smelter a reaction that takes 1 scrap ore, 1 flux stone (or maybe even a flux stone bar) and 1 coal to make 2 steel bars. It would be much more efficient than the current process an we would miss out on some copper, aluminum, etc as a tradeoff. Plus prismatic smelter needs a power talisman, so it should be good.
In reaction_smelter_prism.txt 
[REACTION:STEEL_MAKING_SCRAP_PRISM]
[NAME:make steel bars from scrap (prism)]
[BUILDING:SMELTER_PRISM:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SCRAP_METAL]
[REAGENT:C:1:BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:FLUX]
[REAGENT:D:150:BAR:NONE:COAL:NO_MATGLOSS]
[PRODUCT:100:2:BAR:NONE:METAL:STEEL][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[SKILL:SMELT]

I prefer having power talismans being used to build workshops than juggle so many spark batteries at once. I can see some appeal, but for endgame power talismans are better, doubling workshops for spark battery and power talisman versions would be a bit much (although I could simply upgrade the workshops as power talismans become available) and I prefer to think that ponies would prefer to link everything to a generator / central battery bank rather than carry spark batteries everywhere.

> Civilian SATS / military SATS.
I'm in favor of pure solution (either just wearable pipbucks or everypony gets it as part of their CREATURE), but not enough to make a fuss.

> Barrel of dirty water and coal are taken with the batteries, and boom. Get an empty barrel and charged batteries. [...]
This makes no sense whatsoever to me. Besides, we already have a Flux converter that a Unicorn can use to charge a spark battery, while getting a nasty syndrome for a week (an EP would simply die).

Hm, this computer doesn't crash (as much), so I might be able to see how it goes. You basically want me to find and equip a pipbuck and see if it works?
Here is a hint for further testing: Add a workshop "CHEAT" that takes 1 boulder to build and has reactions with no reagents that produce all the stuff you're testing. Make sure to make the IDs for those reaction like this: TEST_PIPBUCK. Then you can easily remove this stuff for release and can test even advanced things within an hour of embarking.

And if you want us to test something, include the link to what you want us to test. I can't speak for the rest of us, but I'm lazy and prone to confusion.

> Magma workshops.
Yeah, remove. I built a big metal industry with magma in FoE, but geothermal doesn't fit FoE much.


> Ok, found out how to make reaction-trigger syndromes work, so those should be done by the end of today. 
That's good news. I'll wait then.

[Splint]

>PipBucks
It was just a solution to balance things out. It's up to those actually working on the mod to make it so.

>This makes no sense whatsoever to me.
Seems much more snippy to me than it's probably meant to. Main purpose of the suggestion is an alternative to getting your unicorn(s) sick, based on what someone else mentioned. Dirty (as in undrinkable so it can be kept out of food storage stocks,) water goes into the generator/turbine to make steam (with the fuel,) steam makes juice, said juice goes into charging batteries. May take more effort than the flux converter (if I'm assuming right; never used one myself, I got bored or killed by the unending hordes of feral ghouls/radscorpions before ever getting to the fancier workshops,) but it's an alternative means to recharge batteries without workers getting sick or in the case of poorly timed EP haulers, possibly killed.

As to safely located generators, you can look into masterwork for that. They have steam generators (water and fuel go in, power comes out for x amount of time,) to power many workshops for the gnomes and I think some dwarven workshops.

Spoiler: rambldyramble (click to show/hide)

Could look at it as the Earth pony way of keeping the damned things charged when unicorns aren't available or few in number (such as due to illness, injury, being already occupied, being dead, or active soldiers since they're obviously preferred for combat which may have been why thier unicorns are dead/in short supply in the first place.)

And even if not used for the above, the dirty water could be used with a rad-x or radaway item to make a purified water trade good similar to golden salve to sell to caravans - purified water is very valuable in the wasteland, and you'd only be able to make as many barrels of it to sell as you have rad-x/radaway (whichever, if they're added.) Primary goal obviously being "boost wealth to export with barrels of this shit to draw in raiders to fight" for when you're further along and want a military challenge without selling precious weapons and other technology.

[UnicodingUnicorn]

> I think it would be a good idea to add to the prismatic smelter a reaction that takes 1 scrap ore, 1 flux stone (or maybe even a flux stone bar) and 1 coal to make 2 steel bars.
Noted, will get to it after DFHack.

>RAWS
Wow, doing my work for me. Thanks.

> You basically want me to find and equip a pipbuck and see if it works?
Yep, don't really need to find it though...And also help see if unpausing crashes the game. Most of the DFHack-ish changes are in the raws folder under onload.init

> has reactions with no reagents that produce all the stuff you're testing
Or use DFHack.

> And if you want us to test something, include the link to what you want us to test. I can't speak for the rest of us, but I'm lazy and prone to confusion.
Here. Basically gen a world and embark anyway, preferably an area with things like ghouls or radscorpions, give a pony a PipBuck and then sic him/her on the local wildlife. Check the resulting combat logs for mentions of SATS being activated.

> could be used with a rad-x or radaway item
Oh right, I kinda skipped over those...RadAway may actually be viable now, since DFHack has the -erase option on the add-syndrome command.

> Could look at it as the Earth pony way of keeping the damned things charged when unicorns aren't available or few in number
In-fluff, prewar there were prismatic generators and post-war spark batteries were plentiful/valuable. That said, in-crunch I have no idea what to say.

[Splint]

what you find are primarily already-depleted ones in the mod mostly, not all primed and ready for use. At least last time I played that was the case. Anyway, a simple "That's stupid, not going to use it." would suffice. If you don't feel it should be included, then don't include it. You're doing the bulk of the gruntwork now so it's your call in the end.

[UnicodingUnicorn]

I suck at making calls.

Anyway, assaulting people won't trigger sieges because of DF army movement stuff.

UPDATE: Phoebus and ASCII

[Destyvirago]

Just downloaded the latest version with DF Hack, but it seems you forgot the dfhack.init file so I got an error message. I'll try to copy the dfhack.init file from the test you posted earlier today.

[Maklak]

> Dirty (as in undrinkable so it can be kept out of food storage stocks,) water goes into the generator/turbine to make steam (with the fuel,) steam makes juice, said juice goes into charging batteries.
Ah, I get it now. Thanks. I'm unsure if I support the idea and leaning on "no", but at least I get it. Lol, steam ponies

> Selling purified water.
Nah, this doesn't make as much sense with barrel cactus water and other sources of water we have. Besides, I get wealth pretty quickly. And exports are never a problem with prepared meals or clothes.

> > RAWS
> Wow, doing my work for me. Thanks.
Yeah, I learned to read some of the RAWs by studying this mod (starting with reactions), but am not much of a modder myself.

> > has reactions with no reagents that produce all the stuff you're testing
> Or use DFHack.
So it has an insert item command? Yes, that works even better.

> what you find are primarily already-depleted [batteries] in the mod mostly
I think this is working as intended. Having as many recharged batteries would be too powerful, IMO. Plus it gives us an incentive to build prismatic generators. The Flux converter (that I proposed) is just an option to "I need a charged battery now". Yeah, it wouldn't work so well in a fort with low population and almost exclusively Earth ponies.
One change, I'd propose to flux generators is that magic CMs at master level don't get (as) affected by the syndrome.

[Splint]

>Water
Again, just a thought/suggestion. I was thinking less "useable drink" and more "explicitly a trade good" though, since not everywhere has the benefits of things like cacti that survived the war to get water from. If it's anything like the original source (lovely ol' Fallout,) then the vast majority of people have to rely on somewhat scarce purifiers, groundwater that may or may not be safe, or hope to god the water that they are getting isn't severely irradiated (which is what dirty water is in the games,) though the places that weren't bombed back to the stone age at least are more or less safe from irradiated water hazards and just have to worry about any germs that might have survived in it. Here there's also water talismans, but those are rather rare as I recall and I doubt anyone would want to part with them willingly or only at a greatly inflated cost, as a working water talisman would be a godsend to any wasteland settlement.

>Steam ponies
Not really (since that phrase made me think you though steampunk,) most electrical generators use steam to turn the turbines to make electricity, though hydroelectric turbines of course use water to spin the things up directly instead of through some sort of fuel (like coal.) I figure a slightly more resource intensive - since it needs fuel and some otherwise unsafe useless water to make any power - a batch recharging generator would make sense. Or perhaps digging up a schematic to make a battery charging station.

Spoiler: Let the bad idea come forth! (click to show/hide)

Power-requiring workshop schematic and say, a pair of metal corkscrews (turbine stand-ins,) 3 metal blocks, a terminal to regulate power, run diagnostics and all that, some wiring, a toolkit (to maintain the turbine and battery plugs and whatnot,) and a chair. Shop gets built, needs lots of power, and as such needs to be near a dedicated power plant (wind or hydro,) so that it can be used to recharge batteries in small or large batches. The result? Now you have to dig it up, spend some extra resources for the turbines, chair, and terminal, and spend logs on providing power to run its electricity-giving turbines. But once set up, it's done, and you get a handy dandy recharging station that may fit decently enough and recharges batteries in bulk!

Now you just have to defend it, which would ideally mean building a whole little power plant building accessible from underground only, which has the added bonus of giving idlers something to build.

But again it's up to the people doing the work, not me, as I am busy with other things and have no idea how to do workshops.

[Destyvirago]

Tried the latest release. Here is how it went.

Upon startup i got a notification that the dfhack.init file was missing. I copied the one I got from the test save Snail555 released earlier and got it working. After some careful setup I sent my 7 ponies out for adventure and sudden violent death as they started next to 5 or so Rad crocodiles. Livestock and Ponies got eaten within seconds of unpause. Seeing the horror unfolding I quietly retired the fort... and crashed DF. 
I booted up again and noted that my previous embark was not saved so the calendar still showed the 15th as I tried to embark yet again. After selecting my gear and skills I tried to embark again, but just as I embarked DF crashed again. I got an error message saying:

....40.2 Phoebus\hack\scripts/modtools/reaction-trigger.lua:223: Could not find syndrome assembling Pinkanema
Stack traceback: [c]: in function 'error'
....40.2 Phoebus\hack\scripts/modtools/reaction-trigger.lua:223: in main chunk
(...tail calls...)

I do wonder if the old version of Phoebus has been used as I noticed that the new version has vastly different trees. That could probably be some of the reason for the crash.

[Maklak]

With water merchants in Fallout and Water Talisnans in stables, pretty much my only complaint about water as trade good is that stable ponies will dehydrate over drinking it themselves

> Steam ponies.
I was thinking steam engine from a train (and Equestria had some coal powered trains) as a generator.

> Workshop requiring power that can charge batteries.
Heh, I'd just use water reactors

I'm fine on batteries, charged or otherwise in any case. Well, maybe a bit low in the beginning.

EDIT: Got the game running. Is thiss the command to get a pipbuck?
#createitem SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_PIPBUCK INORGANIC:PIPBUCK
It makes two pipbucks worth 200 each.