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Author Topic: Breeding werechameleons?  (Read 3178 times)

Numeroid

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Breeding werechameleons?
« on: October 25, 2012, 12:36:03 am »

I had a werechameleon attack, one thing led to another, and now I've got two were chameleons trapped in a room. Can they make werechameleon babies? Can I possibly make a military of werechameleons?
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Eric Blank

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Re: Breeding werechameleons?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2012, 12:49:13 am »

Oh man, Loud whispers, as far as I've read, would have the most ‼scientific‼ experience with keeping werebeasts alive within his fort, but I'd hazard a guess that it is impossible for them to breed because while in werebeast form they don't have gender at all, and while in their natural form, if dwarves, they wouldn't breed because chances are they aren't married. It's also very, very risky to use these werebeasts to simply bite dwarves to infect them, because they'd usually kill the dwarf, and if not they might be caught wrassling after the werebeast transforms back and start a loyalty cascade for attacking one-another in a non-tantrum-spiral setting.

If you go the nibbling route and manage to infect a bunch of dwarves without starting a loyalty cascade, you'll still have to contend with the fact that these super-soldiers will need to be locked away on the full moon and probably wouldn't fare well in combat due to being naked and unarmed in werebeast form. It'd be to theiur advantage that wounds they acquire could be healed that way, though.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 12:50:58 am by Eric Blank »
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Numeroid

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Re: Breeding werechameleons?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2012, 12:52:35 am »

Agh, they got separated, but they're still quarantined from the rest of the fortress. Not sure if I should just go ahead and kill them or if I can use them to my advantage.

if dwarves, they wouldn't breed because chances are they aren't married. It's also very, very risky to use these werebeasts to simply bite dwarves to infect them, because they'd usually kill the dwarf, and if not they might be caught wrassling after the werebeast transforms back and start a loyalty cascade for attacking one-another in a non-tantrum-spiral setting.

Damn, they're not married. Still up for some creative ideas though.
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Numeroid

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Re: Breeding werechameleons?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2012, 01:19:10 am »

I messed up on a construction of mine and went back to an earlier save point and they're back in the same room. Woot.
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chevil

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Re: Breeding werechameleons?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2012, 03:43:42 am »

Look for a topic i think was called Holy mother of !!cience!!
If i remember correctly then that thread proved that werecurses aren't hereditary.
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thrush_titan

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Re: Breeding werechameleons?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2012, 09:02:00 am »

won't the army of werechameleons just attack each other anyway?  they're berserk
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darkflagrance

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Re: Breeding werechameleons?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2012, 12:56:01 pm »

Can't you leave the two unmarried weredwarves in the same room and let them marry over time naturally?
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Pyro627

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Re: Breeding werechameleons?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2012, 01:31:28 pm »

On the topic of werechameleons, are chameleons actually harder to detect than other creatures? Does this game check for camouflage?
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AutomataKittay

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Re: Breeding werechameleons?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2012, 01:44:02 pm »

On the topic of werechameleons, are chameleons actually harder to detect than other creatures? Does this game check for camouflage?
AFAIK no, though ambusher tag would make them undetectable until you're on top of it.

Also, I can't seem to find chameleon for creatures entry on magmawiki, just string dump, is it something hard-coded in DF?
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Berossus

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Re: Breeding werechameleons?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2012, 01:45:05 pm »

Am i the only one reading "breeding watermelons?" everytime i look at this thread?
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Aseaheru

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Re: Breeding werechameleons?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2012, 03:03:13 pm »

nope
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Breeding werechameleons?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2012, 03:34:45 pm »

I had a werechameleon attack, one thing led to another, and now I've got two were chameleons trapped in a room. Can they make werechameleon babies? Can I possibly make a military of werechameleons?
I'd hazard a guess that it is impossible for them to breed because while in werebeast form they don't have gender at all
They have gender, but from what I've gathered from the increased gestation period in were-dwarves is that Toady anticipated us trying to force cross breed species through Lycanthropy sporing and made them suspend all fertility/baby development in transformed form, to avoid were-creatures breeding in animal form and giving birth to some freaky babies or breeding in humanoid form and giving birth to soon-to-be-eaten babies in were-creature form.

Can't you leave the two unmarried weredwarves in the same room and let them marry over time naturally?
Probably. It'd play out like breeding normal Dwarves I'd reckon, with the only difference being that the gestation period would be increased by around 18-28 days and the mother'd never be allowed to hold onto her baby every full moon unless the baby was bitten non-lethally. This happens to be incredibly difficult.
It's probably easier to make a were-creature fort out of single Dwarves, with the child bearers being normal couples living in a separate fort.

you'll still have to contend with the fact that these super-soldiers will need to be locked away on the full moon and probably wouldn't fare well in combat due to being naked and unarmed in werebeast form. It'd be to theiur advantage that wounds they acquire could be healed that way, though.
Well, this is debatable and highly dependent on the RNG. Something a lot of people - even myself forget is that were-creatures still have that immunity to all weapon materials (except their kryptonite material) when in Dwarf form. I've seen were-creatures in Silentthunders shrug off masterwork steel bolts to the skull because of this immunity. Were-creatures are also adept at tearing apart anything lightly armoured or not fully armoured. Goblins for example who leave their arms, feet, legs, teeth and necks exposed - will invariably die. Dwarves covered in mail, plate, helms, cloaks and whatever you can pile on them - will not. (Unless the were-creature latches on - shaking can cause serious damage through armour).
If you get an Axelord armoured in full candy/steel infected with something that's only vulnerable to say, bronze or steel (metals rarely used by any civilization), it's going to be practically invincible until the full moon.
Then after the two days it's a blood thirsty naked killing machine, that's when it's most vulnerable.
On the other hand something that's vulnerable to copper, silver or iron - really common metals is probably not all that bad either. After all, it's something that can easily be fixed with armour. The only difference being they're more likely to die if faced with goblins when they transform.

Oh and if you ever decide to have were-creature Fortresses, make sure you make them have the "does not care about anything" trait, or else have a good clothing industry. The transforming tends to wear down clothes quickly, and I'm not sure what happens to insane were-creatures just yet.

Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Breeding werechameleons?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2012, 08:54:07 pm »

...
Well, this is debatable and highly dependent on the RNG. Something a lot of people - even myself forget is that were-creatures still have that immunity to all weapon materials (except their kryptonite material) when in Dwarf form. I've seen were-creatures in Silentthunders shrug off masterwork steel bolts to the skull because of this immunity.
...

Nope, they are vulnerable in dwarf form. Extract the raws from your world.sav or look in the interaction examples.

Loud Whispers

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Re: Breeding werechameleons?
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2012, 09:15:12 pm »

Nope, they are vulnerable in dwarf form. Extract the raws from your world.sav or look in the interaction examples.

Allay that then. The adventure mode peasants misled me! Honest!