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Author Topic: Confounded logic puzzles  (Read 13804 times)

Neonivek

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #75 on: October 13, 2012, 04:25:27 pm »

He doesn't say Yes and No randomly. He switches between telling the truth and lying randomly.
Which is just a different way to say the same thing. guys if Pnx meant "he keeps alternating between yes and no" then he'd have said so.

It is a VERY important distinction however to my solution. Which was to cheat.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2012, 04:25:49 pm »

...yes, yes there is. Ask one of the other two. Or simply identify one of the other two.
Ah right, as far as I can tell you need to get the two nonrandom people to "outvote" the random guy and identify him.  A working question I've got is:

*points at god* "Would someone who has the opposite truth/lies configuration to you say that he is the random god?"

It goes to a vote.  Both the truthteller and the liar will say "No" if it is the random god and "Yes" if it isn't, so you could go by a majority decision and ignore the random person.  I will now work on followups.
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Darvi

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2012, 04:27:14 pm »

Once you have figured out Norman with the first question then you can just follow up with one question as per the old "two guys, one question" scenario.
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Neonivek

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2012, 04:28:49 pm »

Also you guys forgot something...

You don't know which is yes and which is no.

My question only had room for "no" or "yes" while isolating the random. Via cheating.
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Darvi

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #79 on: October 13, 2012, 04:29:42 pm »

Oh yeah that thing.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #80 on: October 13, 2012, 04:29:52 pm »

It is, the question was "Is the sky blue?" and I gave a condition.
A condition that made it a three state question instead of a binary one within the context of the situation, with the answers being True/False/Undefined.

That's not a true/false question.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #81 on: October 13, 2012, 04:30:11 pm »

I haven't quite got him since I need a question to work out the meanings of yes and no.  So another first question if that turns out to be the more important factor would be:

"Would someone with the opposite truth/lies configuration to you say the sky is blue?"

The majority answer in this case means "no" (if you're lucky the random god will also out himself on this question and the puzzle is solved, but we'll assume you're unlucky and he goes with the other two).  So that's another question that would open up information.
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Neonivek

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #82 on: October 13, 2012, 04:30:37 pm »

It is, the question was "Is the sky blue?" and I gave a condition.
A condition that made it a three state question instead of a binary one within the context of the situation, with the answers being True/False/Undefined.

That's not a true/false question.

Undefined is always a possibility in a yes or no question.
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Darvi

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #83 on: October 13, 2012, 04:31:35 pm »

"Would someone with the opposite truth/lies configuration to you say the sky is blue?"

The majority answer in this case means "no".
Unless that planet has a different sky colour, the majority answer would actually be "yes"
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #84 on: October 13, 2012, 04:31:53 pm »

...no, no it isn't. It's only a possibility in true/false/undefined questions.

Which aren't of the type we're allowed to ask.

And technically, you've said you self true and false aren't even valid answers for the last guy, so in what way is it a true false question if he can't answer true or false?
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Reelya

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #85 on: October 13, 2012, 04:33:22 pm »

Working out which is true/false is not part of the solution. It's a waste of a question.

Leafsnail

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #86 on: October 13, 2012, 04:39:27 pm »

Can the other gods predict what the random god will say this time?  If so you can ask

"What would someone with the opposite truth/lies configuration to you say that the random god's response will be this time?"

This way you have identified the random god on your first shot - he will be the odd one out.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 04:41:28 pm by Leafsnail »
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2012, 04:39:52 pm »

Reelya ..what?

Multiple interpretations of what you said there.


And Leafsnail... good question. Maybe. I'm trying to figure out how it could be useful even if so.

However, your question is (again) not a true/false question. It's an undefined one, since one of the gods doesn't have an opposite.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 04:42:49 pm by GlyphGryph »
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Neonivek

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #88 on: October 13, 2012, 04:44:00 pm »

...no, no it isn't. It's only a possibility in true/false/undefined questions.

Which aren't of the type we're allowed to ask.

And technically, you've said you self true and false aren't even valid answers for the last guy, so in what way is it a true false question if he can't answer true or false?

"Is the sky Blue?" sounds like a yes or no question right?

There is still an undefined.

Quote
Working out which is true/false is not part of the solution. It's a waste of a question

I saw one person's solution that actually didn't get the "True/false" and thus didn't actually know which told the truth and which lied. It only assumed it did.
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Lectorog

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Re: Confounded logic puzzles
« Reply #89 on: October 13, 2012, 04:47:14 pm »

Undefined answer for the Random god is okay. Pnx said he randomly answers Yes or No, not True or False. He doesn't have to interpret the questions.
To clarify, the random one does just choose randomly between yes and no. I thought I was clear about that, but I guess I should have made sure I had the right wording.
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