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Author Topic: M E I N K A M P F : A Tale of Vainglourious Basterds - [GAME OVER: 5/11]  (Read 69758 times)

Hapah

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Quote from: UI
So when the Kommandant said there were four spies, he was wrong?

Mod: You've already said you won't lie to us, but can the flavor lie to us?
It's possible the Kommandant had (has?) incomplete or faulty intel. Considering how much I love not getting shot in the face, I'm just going to hold the course until we manage to get 4 spies and then see where the Kommandant goes from there.

Concerning Tir's spy confusion: It is a very interesting observation.

Quote from: The OP
Welcome to Mein Kampf: A Tale of Vainglourious Basterds, where the scum take the spotlight! This Mafia game aims to be novel, challenging, interesting, intellectually stimulating and, of course, delightfully, mischievously, uproariously fun. Though its mechanics are designed to be well-defined and coherent, this is not a vanilla game – in fact, I'd deem this setup to be quite experimental, so bear with me when you play.
No kidding on that bolded part, LNCP.

I'm a bit surprised that no-one has tried to tease apart what the flavor means; I gather it's rather important. I've a theory of what happened to Deathsword, and I'd like to play an episode of CSI:Nazi Camp for all of you to that end. I hope that you will find my observations interesting: I think it will be difficult to win if we cannot even interpret the events transpiring around us. It might be a bit long, but I think it flows well enough.

Now, Deathsword's death. He was found, throat slit, on the edge of the camp. As I have stated before, I believe he was killed there and left where he fell: There are no indications that the body was moved (tracks in the mud from a dragged corpse), and I cannot see why someone would kill him elsewhere and then dump him on the edge of the camp without attempting to hide the body. Plus, the risks of moving the corpse would be non-trivial: What do you say if a guard catches you dragging a man's corpse through the camp?

Next, there were no signs of a struggle. No tears in the clothes, no defensive wounds, and perhaps most damning there wasn't even in any blood on DS's hands. You would at least expect him to clutch a hand to his throat if he was aware when attacked, yes? But that didn't happen. Considering that there are no obvious signs of trauma to DS's body, this leads me to believe that Deathsword was likely drugged before his throat was slit.

Now, think for a moment. Ask yourself "What drug would someone use to quickly and easily incapacitate a target?" When I asked myself this question, the thing that immediately popped into my head was Chloroform. And right there, in the intro, is this (bolded for emphasis): "Chloroform is an organic compound with formula CHCl3. It is one of the four chloromethanes.[1] The colorless, sweet-smelling, dense liquid is a trihalomethane, and is considered somewhat hazardous. Several million tons are produced annually as a precursor to Teflon and refrigerants, but its use for refrigerants is being phased out.[1]"

Do I have your attention yet?

Tolyk claimed that he found a vial of a colorless, sweet-smelling liquid in Dar's equipment (he said it was something similar to perfume, though why anyone would keep perfume in a vial is beyond me). As Tolyk was a spy we obviously cannot take his claim at face value, but I'm glad he claimed what he did (it was my "a-HA!" moment). It might be that Dar has chloroform. It could also be that Tolyk or one of his co-conspirators has chloroform, and Tolyk could have used this information to fake the inspect/investigation and frame Dar. The one thing of which I am reasonably certain is that some sort of incapacitating drug is involved, and chloroform fits the information given quite well. It makes everything work: Deathsword either left his tent of his own accord or was coaxed out by a trusted figure. Once on the outskirts of the camp, he was ambushed (either through stealth or treachery) with chloroform, likely a rag over the mouth. While he may have resisted (hence the ruffled shirt, likely the assailant had one hand over DS's mouth and the other around his neck), his struggle would have been futile. Once incapacitated, he was put down and his throat quietly slit to finish the job: The drugs ensure no screams or shouts, no struggle, no marks or blood at all left on the assailant. It makes the entire process so clean.

TL;DR - I believe that if we can find chloroform or another incapacitating drug, we can likely find DS's killer, though whether it is a vigilante or spy treachery I cannot say.

To that end, I would like to relay my theory to the Kommandant and request that he dispatch someone to our medical supplies (medical tent?), if possible, to
-Confirm that we are missing no drugs with characteristics similar to chloroform
-Gather information about who, if anyone, was treated with drugs similar to chloroform in the last few days

Day's been extended until Wednesday, so we have a little time. Thoughts?
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I can't be expected to remember the names of everyone I've tried to stab.

Bored? Go read the EVE Chronicles.

Shakerag

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Forgive me if I repeat something that's been said already.  I'm starting from the beginning of the day and working my way from there.  Also, OMG, a rare night post from Shakerag!  O_o

Okay ... so D1 flavor says there are four spies ... and three are dead, but one of those three died in the night.  So that would have to mean either multiple scumteams or a vig (or maybe both).  Each of the three dead spies was from a different country.  I suppose it's possible we could have something silly like 4 1-man scumteams.  Or maybe 2 1-man and 1 2-man team. 


Tiruin: I swear it takes me half a dozen reads to understand what you're asking me sometimes.  Why'd I believe him?  Because it felt like an earnest "Oh shit better drop my results before I get lynched" sort of thing.  Why'd I specify (role)cop?  I tend to mentally lump all investigative-ish roles together in my head as "cop".  I think I read recently somewhere on here someone else does the same thing.  I don't think I've ever seen some kind of thief role, and things like watcher/tracker didn't occur to me.  Seemed like TolyK was claiming some kind of rolecop to me.  Plus, he said he "visited" Dariush.  I know it could be looked at from any angle, but my mind said "cop" when I read it.


Dariush: I'm activelurking town, bitchtits.  Get it straight.  But, yes, I think I know how IronyOwl feels some games now.  Also, that was totally not a bullshit reason on BMC.  You offend me, good sir.  His background story totally stuck out compared to the rest of ours.  Tell me I'm wrong.

But, in all seriousness, I've been really fucking busy with RL, plus ICing on top of that.  So, yeah, I'm having a not so fresh feeling in this game.

Also:
First theory: Kommandant. Second theory: LNCP intentionally made all the, frankly, weakest players spies so that everyone else would be distracted from the real, as of yet unknown threat.
I can't help but think "u mad about your terribad scummates, bro?"


Know what I think?  I think there are two teams of spies, and Tiruin's on one of them.  No one of Tiruin's team has flipped, which why, in his head, no spies have flipped... despite EVERY PLAYER so far having flipped spy.  That's not oversight- that's thinking about the game from a scum perspective.
I was starting to think the same thing reading through the day.  What say you about that, Tiruin?


Hapah:  I'm having trouble disagreeing with your detectivorizing.  If TolyK really was some kind of spy rolecop (maybe extra abilities aren't being shown in the roleflips?), and he did find such a thing on Dariush ... then Dariush is either scum or a vig. 


I'll be back in 12 hours-ish.

Tiruin

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Hapah:  I'm having trouble disagreeing with your detectivorizing.
My chemistry lessons tell me that chloroform was a reasonable chemical being used in warfare both as a medicinal aid, as an anesthetic or as an offensive weapon - usually people who needed medical aid were given liquor to dull the sense of pain. Nevertheless, his CSI-style is pretty impressive, and reasonable now that you think about it.

Hapah:



I love how people think I'm stupid enough to consider giving a clue that, from a spy perspective, none of my team have flipped and are assuming that I've slipped as speaking such.

Hey Toaster, stop twisting my words, would you?

UI:
I'm guessing either a standard size team plus a smaller secret team (Tiruin being the latter) or two equal sized teams with contradictory goals- I like the latter idea better.
You do? That would mean six spies in an eleven player game, considering your previous theory that none of Tiruin's buddies have flipped.
Exactly six. Why that?

On those questions, is it just because the one who asked them - a spy - mean that they shouldn't be continued regardless?

Quote
No. I'm under the assumption that he used his team's power (UI says it was specifically an inspect) as a coverstory for his own hide with such a weak push against Dariush.
That's so stupid. Of course you don't buy TolyK being a cop. Obviously he made shit up to save his ass his whole team is a cop! So very stupid, and you're assuming it while completely disregarding the much simpler and more likely assumption.

Also, I am stupid damnit, just so you don't have to repeat it in every single paragraph you address to me. But answer me this, regardless of anything I said earlier if you won't listen. Do you think I would make such a move as to do what you suspect - ie, "No flip because they aren't on my team - borrowing from Toaster's idea"? Someone said something about perfume - sweet smelling liquid. If or if not, TolyK was just gibbering or pulling something from behind his back, it seems relevant to research found (Chloroform). Judging by what that said, Dariush was the one that killed Deathsword if perfume, said sweet smelling liquid had any idea with what is given. Also, TolyK didn't flip Cop, it wasn't in the Mod's words - flavor, probably.

I'm betting either vig, or opposite teams here. And on that note, The Kommandant spoke of getting recently infiltrated, but what about sleeper agents? It seems like a viable conclusion. The spy team won't kill their own with the fatality rate like this.

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Hapah

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Shake, Tir: Glad to know I'm not completely off base, at least. I think it's actually quite compelling when all the pieces are considered. And I'm think abilities don't come with flips on death: How could you tell if someone had a protect or investigation or whatever by looking at his passport? S'not like we'll find a doctor's bag in his boots.

I haven't put a lot of thought into reads; I couldn't put the Deathsword problem down until I'd figured it out. I will be very interested to see if my request to the Kommandant bears fruit, though. I also just noticed that Tolyk's spy faction (if there are multiple factions) had at least two others besides himself left at the time of his death, as he shouted out "I won’t betray them!” before he was beaten to death. Just another piece of info in this big puzzle.

I'm thinking there are multiple spy factions, if only because I doubt there is any way we'd be so lucky as to go 3 for 3 on kills (and one being a vigi or spykill, at that). Sorry that I don't have much in the way of individual suspicions, but I do feel like I contributed something today! I'll give a read tomorrow and see if I can't come up with reads.
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I can't be expected to remember the names of everyone I've tried to stab.

Bored? Go read the EVE Chronicles.

lordnincompoop

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Votecount:
zombie urist  - 0 - 
Tiruin  - 3 -  Urist Imiknorris, Toaster, Shakerag
Toaster  - 0 - 
Dariush  - 1 -  Tiruin
IronyOwl  - 0 - 
Urist Imiknorris  - 0 - 
Hapah  - 0 - 
Shakerag  - 1 -  Dariush
-
Not Voting  - 3 -  Hapah, zombie urist, IronyOwl,
No Lynch  - 0 - 



zombie urist has replaced Jim Groovester.

The Day will end tomorrow, 8PM GMT.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 11:40:36 am by lordnincompoop »
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Tiruin

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Votecount:
zombie urist  - 0 - 
Tiruin  - 2 -  Urist Imiknorris, Toaster
Toaster  - 0 - 
Dariush  - 1 -  Tiruin
IronyOwl  - 0 - 
TolyK  - 0 - 
Urist Imiknorris  - 0 - 
Hapah  - 0 - 
Shakerag  - 1 -  Dariush
-
Not Voting  - 4 -  Shakerag, Hapah, zombie urist, IronyOwl,
No Lynch  - 0 - 



zombie urist has replaced Jim Groovester.

The Day will end tomorrow, 8PM GMT.

zombie urist  - 0 - 
Tiruin  - 2 -  Urist Imiknorris, Toaster
Toaster  - 0 - 
Dariush  - 1 -  Tiruin
IronyOwl  - 0 - 
TolyK  - 0 - 
Urist Imiknorris  - 0 - 
Hapah  - 0 - 
Shakerag  - 1 -  Dariush
-
Not Voting  - 4 -  Shakerag, Hapah, zombie urist, IronyOwl,
No Lynch  - 0 - 

TolyK  - 0 - 
Um.

Mod: Am I seeing right?
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Tiruin

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EBWOP: Extend. Just met RL problems again, unsure if posting quality or quantity will remain the same in the coming day - I won't be able to post on Wednesday though. :/
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lordnincompoop

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Mod: Am I seeing right?

Yes. That's a mistake.

You do not need to quote the same post three times.
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Hapah

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PFP

Kommandant: Relay my theory to the Kommandant. Request that he dispatch someone to our medical supplies (medical tent?), if possible, to
-Confirm that we are missing no drugs with characteristics similar to chloroform
-Gather information about who, if anyone, was treated with drugs similar to chloroform in the last few days
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I can't be expected to remember the names of everyone I've tried to stab.

Bored? Go read the EVE Chronicles.

Toaster

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Tiruin:  That's a nice wall of text, but you failed to (as far as I can tell) address my main point: that the reason that you didn't realize that spies had flipped is that none of your spy buddies had flipped.  If that's wrong, please tell me why you missed it.


UI:
Toaster:
UI:  The above bolded bits have to mean something.  If we assume for a second that there is more than one scum team, then assuming they don't have a standard kill (given only one night kill so far) then that doesn't seem quite so farfetched.
So when the Kommandant said there were four spies, he was wrong?

I'd say it's a distinct possibility.


Hapah:  You seem awfully interested in rooting out someone who could be a vig.  If Dariush did kill Deathsword, would you vote him over it?


Shakerag:
Hapah:  I'm having trouble disagreeing with your detectivorizing.  If TolyK really was some kind of spy rolecop (maybe extra abilities aren't being shown in the roleflips?), and he did find such a thing on Dariush ... then Dariush is either scum or a vig. 

So which is he?  You're pointing the finger at him anyway- mad that he killed your buddy?
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Tiruin

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Tiruin:  That's a nice wall of text, but you failed to (as far as I can tell) address my main point: that the reason that you didn't realize that spies had flipped is that none of your spy buddies had flipped.  If that's wrong, please tell me why you missed it.
I didn't miss it. Misunderstanding what I typed there? I'm getting the feeling like something is up with your sudden shift of viewpoint since you voted me.

Tiruin: Why are you taking the words of a flipped spy at face value?
There's a flipped spy among us? What?

Oh.

OH.
By my wording, I had hoped to convey that I was using sarcasm as my vote was on Dariush - implying what I posted above to his case.

Though, I still don't get how you concluded that far-off idea. Let me try to sum it up: You thought I talked about flips pertaining to spies - guessing that the three dead are non-buddies of your suspect, thus arriving at your idea that I'm a spy and the dead aren't on my team - and based on that, thinking I had said out loud that...I'm scum by reasoning with the flips.

...That doesn't make any logical sense. Why the reasoning there?
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lordnincompoop

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Kommandant: Relay my theory to the Kommandant. Request that he dispatch someone to our medical supplies (medical tent?), if possible, to
-Confirm that we are missing no drugs with characteristics similar to chloroform
-Gather information about who, if anyone, was treated with drugs similar to chloroform in the last few days


Invalid action.
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Tiruin

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Wasn't Shakerag voting me?
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Toaster

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Tiruin:  So you're saying that was sarcasm?
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Tiruin

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I was using UI's context as my springboard.

Now that I think back, I had never thought that he was referring to TolyK then, as the last thing I saw was him swearing at Dariush and continued along that line of thought.
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