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[Urist Imiknorris]

Deathsword:

UI:

Deathsword: For someone who claims not to have any real scumpicks, you sure don't seem to be interested in finding any.

I am terribly sorry that the way I like to scumhunt doesn't fit into your standards of scumhunting. I like to be sure about something before I do it, no matter what it is.

So you're not sure you want to question people?

Shakerag: Okay, I'll admit: my scumhunting is being almost none so far, and what I did wasn't very good. I'll take what you said into consideration and try to improve for this game.

And here you change your story. It's no longer that your scumhunting methods don't look like what I look for, but you've just barely been scumhunting in the first place. Why not? Why tell me you were?

Zombie:

Well I thought my RVS questions were good. I'm no longer asking RVS questions because RVS is over.

And non-RVS questions? Because RVS isn't worth much.

penngo:

As for Irony I was mostly just observing and yes, answering  the questions that were asked.
I also want to hear on more who you think is scum, so don't go up to me about it. I really want you to talk just a bit more.

How does answering other people's questions instead of asking your own help you find scum?

I also want to hear more on who you think is scum.

[Teneb]

Deathsword:

UI:

Deathsword: For someone who claims not to have any real scumpicks, you sure don't seem to be interested in finding any.

I am terribly sorry that the way I like to scumhunt doesn't fit into your standards of scumhunting. I like to be sure about something before I do it, no matter what it is.

So you're not sure you want to question people?

Shakerag: Okay, I'll admit: my scumhunting is being almost none so far, and what I did wasn't very good. I'll take what you said into consideration and try to improve for this game.

And here you change your story. It's no longer that your scumhunting methods don't look like what I look for, but you've just barely been scumhunting in the first place. Why not? Why tell me you were?

You misunderstood what I said there, I wasn't very sure about my suspicions, thus didn't want to act on them. When called on that I admitted that my scumhunting up to that point was indeed pretty bad, almost none.

[Hapah]

Sorry folks, today sucked.

Hapah@118: What's Toaster's #1 scumtell?

I answer for the sake of completeness: I think it's failure to deliver.

@121: The answer is/was predictable.  It's how the answer is given is what's important.

Now, see, that's not quite how I read it. What I saw it as was an attempt to provoke Dar to give a "wrong" answer by being his usual self. I mean, that'd be an easy enough sell to quite a few people here, wouldn't it? Keep feeding Dar inane lines like this:

Dariush:  If you were a woodchuck, what would your favorite color be?

until he gives you some acidic comment in return, and then hold it up for the world to see as "proof" of his scummy-ness. Did you think it'd work? Dar might be a raging asshole most of the time, but give the guy a little credit, he's not stupid. Alternately, maybe you just kept on that line of questioning because you were asked where you were going with it. What did you expect besides the terse sort of response that he's given you?

Are two questions always worse than three? How many of your own questions would you consider relevant?

Too few questions are always worse than too many. On the one hand, you have Bookthras. On the other, you have Org. I will leave it to you to provide the direction of the inequality between those two players.

I'd argue about 75% are relevant, since sometimes I really hate my fucking homework and want to let everyone know about it, and sometimes I try to be funny and I like to believe I succeed occasionally.

Ahhh, but that wasn't the question, was it? I asked if two was always worse than three. And if some questions are by your own admission trivial (though keep 'em coming, that was actually pretty funny), how can you say Think asked too few questions? They both looked like legitimate questions to me. It looks like you had three to his two, which is hardly miles above, yeah?

And can you elaborate on the Book/Org bit?

Because it's one of my flaws. And Toaster's odd question got me off balance a bit, as well.

Oh, really?

The RVS is useless, so nobody has anything to fear, yet you're off balance a bit, huh?

There's a term for what you are: nervous scum.

But not scummy enough to vote, I guess?

[Tiruin]

PFP. Finishing up Finals. Mind is shifting between a state of chemistry and logic. They don't mix well when CH₂=CH-OH could mean Ad Hominem on Carbon and it's relationship with Hydrogen.

In other words, sorry for brevity in posting. Have more to ask, holding it up till later.


zombie urist

=snip=

I've always been serious. I mostly agree with Dariush's sentiment on RVS in that it's mostly meant to get discussion started. I do believe however that it can help determine alignment. If you still see a reason to RVS please say so. Yes I voted Jim for RVS. I didn't what?

I'm leaving accusations and I will base my judgment on how well they respond to them.

Its a strawman because Shakerag is misrepresenting Penngo's argument. Penngo said that he thinks an early massclaim is better than a later one. Shakerag shifted this to mean a D1 or D2 massclaim. More importantly, why are you defending Shakerag?

Let's see. Strawman on picking out the entire point of Shakerag's statement and wording it your own way [meaning of Strawman]. Saying I'm defending Shakerag (without explaining how) and saying you're serious, all the time?

Stop pulling stuff from hammerspace, bro.

Alright, I'll make it simple. If you mean defending by what I said that refers to your statement on Shakerag:

How is this strawmanning? Why are you pressing others to 'answer your question' when you can't even answer theirs? Ie, Hapah. Me.

Just stating that 'you've answered questions' in a post, followed by us asking for it means that we aren't satisfied with that answer. Stop. Evading.

Besides, you throw a prod at Shakerag...who hasn't even posted after your question. Tell me, what does Shakerag's Hapah over penngo have to do with your concern?

Explain. Because you're doing poorly with explanations.

Also, I smell contradiction. Your 'serious' scumhunting here is different from your wording here.

To fix your idea of strawmanning, I'll quote Shakerag's post you seem so keen on calling out.

As for Shakerag I feel like(In my opinion) that mass claiming earlier does a better deal then late. Now I believe that because when people claim what they have done in the night, that it becomes a puzzle of figuring out who is lying, and I feel like that can be a reliable way of finding scum. Now, that isn't saying you can claim what you've done during the night as well.

So does that mean you'd like to call for a D1 massclaim?  Or a D2 massclaim?  Also, why aren't you voting anyone?

So humor me. Can you differentiate an interrogative sentence from a declarative one? And then define what Strawmanning falls under according to that logic?

I believe it was obvious he was asking penngo009 unless my English is a failure. How does one misrepresent with a question?

Deathsword

UI:

Deathsword: For someone who claims not to have any real scumpicks, you sure don't seem to be interested in finding any.

I am terribly sorry that the way I like to scumhunt doesn't fit into your standards of scumhunting. I like to be sure about something before I do it, no matter what it is.

[...]And as to why I am not voting: I am not sure, thus I won't do it until I am. Look at the answer to UI.

Why aren't you sure? Could you give your basic read of everyone and your own take? Why are you afraid to lay down a vote?

...

Shakerag: Okay, I'll admit: my scumhunting is being almost none so far, and what I did wasn't very good. I'll take what you said into consideration and try to improve for this game.

As to your question at the post's end: I'd ask them why are they panicking, if they are trying to hide something and what it is.
[...]

And please, tell how your reads are coming up. Because for all I see, it's leading into a weak case of...cyclic rotation, pertaining to your voting pattern.

Shakerag: I am acting on it. Unless my questions and answers to Tiruin and my question to you (now answered) are somehow invisible. And why are you voting Hapah's on Toaster's #1, if he delivered the vote he promised at 118 on 121? And since you are not willing to share your strategy behind that question to Dariush, I'll have to assume you asked that burden-of-guilt question to make him overreact and get lynched.

Because I can't get how his questioning of your scumhunting deserves an OMGUS. Deriving from that, you seem like you're defending Hapah because of Toaster's #1 scumtell; how does that make Shake scum?

Also.

Shakerag: Okay, I'll admit: my scumhunting is being almost none so far, and what I did wasn't very good. I'll take what you said into consideration and try to improve for this game.
[...]

Sounds like you're backpeddling from what you said here. Pertaining to the first paragraphs.

Shakerag:

Hapah: Fair enough; you pass.  Unvote.

That was a pressure vote based on someone else's definition of a scumtell?


penngo009:

[...]

Shakerag, could you throw anything less at Deathsword?

What purpose did this question serve?

[zombie urist]

And non-RVS questions? Because RVS isn't worth much.

Non-RVS questions don't necessarily follow the guidelines for good RVS questions.

Let's see. Strawman on picking out the entire point of Shakerag's statement and wording it your own way [meaning of Strawman]. Saying I'm defending Shakerag (without explaining how) and saying you're serious, all the time?
Stop pulling stuff from hammerspace, bro.
Alright, I'll make it simple. If you mean defending by what I said that refers to your statement on Shakerag:

How is this strawmanning? Why are you pressing others to 'answer your question' when you can't even answer theirs? Ie, Hapah. Me.
Just stating that 'you've answered questions' in a post, followed by us asking for it means that we aren't satisfied with that answer. Stop. Evading.
Besides, you throw a prod at Shakerag...who hasn't even posted after your question. Tell me, what does Shakerag's Hapah over penngo have to do with your concern?

Explain. Because you're doing poorly with explanations.
Also, I smell contradiction. Your 'serious' scumhunting here is different from your wording here.
To fix your idea of strawmanning, I'll quote Shakerag's post you seem so keen on calling out.

As for Shakerag I feel like(In my opinion) that mass claiming earlier does a better deal then late. Now I believe that because when people claim what they have done in the night, that it becomes a puzzle of figuring out who is lying, and I feel like that can be a reliable way of finding scum. Now, that isn't saying you can claim what you've done during the night as well.

So does that mean you'd like to call for a D1 massclaim?  Or a D2 massclaim?  Also, why aren't you voting anyone?

So humor me. Can you differentiate an interrogative sentence from a declarative one? And then define what Strawmanning falls under according to that logic?
I believe it was obvious he was asking penngo009 unless my English is a failure. How does one misrepresent with a question?

Although I'm wording it my own way, I'm doing my best to preserve the original meaning in the post. You are defending Shakerag because you are questioning my arguments instead of him. Yes I've been serious this entire game so far. 
I'm doing my best to explain. I don't see how they are different. An important distinction I make is that I don't really consider RVS to be scumhunting. I don't see how the type of question matters. I'll try again. I'm going to paraphrase their post and exaggerate to make things clearer.
Penngo: I think claiming earlier is better than claiming later for these reasons...
Shakerag: Are you calling for a D1/D2 massclaim?
Shakerag is implying that Penngo is asking for a D1 massclaim, even though Penngo never said anything like that.

[Tiruin]

Although I'm wording it my own way, I'm doing my best to preserve the original meaning in the post. You are defending Shakerag because you are questioning my arguments instead of him. Yes I've been serious this entire game so far.

So you want to deflect onto Shakerag because of the fact that I'm questioning your arguments? How does that make sense?

Penngo: I think claiming earlier is better than claiming later for these reasons...
Shakerag: Are you calling for a D1/D2 massclaim?
Shakerag is implying that Penngo is asking for a D1 massclaim, even though Penngo never said anything like that.

Perhaps that is why he asked, right?

[Teneb]

Deathsword

UI:

Deathsword: For someone who claims not to have any real scumpicks, you sure don't seem to be interested in finding any.

I am terribly sorry that the way I like to scumhunt doesn't fit into your standards of scumhunting. I like to be sure about something before I do it, no matter what it is.

[...]And as to why I am not voting: I am not sure, thus I won't do it until I am. Look at the answer to UI.

Why aren't you sure? Could you give your basic read of everyone and your own take? Why are you afraid to lay down a vote?

...

Shakerag: Okay, I'll admit: my scumhunting is being almost none so far, and what I did wasn't very good. I'll take what you said into consideration and try to improve for this game.

As to your question at the post's end: I'd ask them why are they panicking, if they are trying to hide something and what it is.
[...]

And please, tell how your reads are coming up. Because for all I see, it's leading into a weak case of...cyclic rotation, pertaining to your voting pattern.

I am not, and wasn't, afraid of voting. I was simply not sure if I was correct or not. It is how I am. If I suspect I might be wrong, I will stop to think about it. My case on Shake you can see below, as for the others I haven't seen anything scummy from them yet, although I don't understand why you keep insisting that ZU is scum.

Shakerag: I am acting on it. Unless my questions and answers to Tiruin and my question to you (now answered) are somehow invisible. And why are you voting Hapah's on Toaster's #1, if he delivered the vote he promised at 118 on 121? And since you are not willing to share your strategy behind that question to Dariush, I'll have to assume you asked that burden-of-guilt question to make him overreact and get lynched.

Because I can't get how his questioning of your scumhunting deserves an OMGUS. Deriving from that, you seem like you're defending Hapah because of Toaster's #1 scumtell; how does that make Shake scum?

He is simply throwing bullshit questions at Dariush to get him to overreact as he usually does, in order to get him lynched. He is also coming with excuses such as Toaster's #1 to vote others, Hapah in this case. Is accusing him of this, together with a vote, an OMGUS? I don't think so.

Also.

Shakerag: Okay, I'll admit: my scumhunting is being almost none so far, and what I did wasn't very good. I'll take what you said into consideration and try to improve for this game.
[...]

Sounds like you're backpeddling from what you said here. Pertaining to the first paragraphs.

I answered this to UI in my last post. I admitted being wrong, how is that backpedalling?

[Dariush]

Answering questions:

TolyK, using your powers of prognostication, who is going to be lynched on Day 1 and for what reason?

I don't have those powers (sadly ) so I think it's going to be either the typical lynching of some random person who said something wrong and got mobrushed (usually a relatively inexperienced player) or one of the people-who-people-want-to-lynch-just-because-they're-Dariush. I seriously doubt that we'll hit scum D1, though.
Pengo, Tiruin, Shake, Me, Dariush? (I don't know most of these people, I'm just taking a guess. But that's what you asked me to do )

This is just ridiculous. You offer absolutely no arguments for your opinions and actually openly admit that you don't give a fuck about your answer. Explain, Tolyk.

@121: The answer is/was predictable.  It's how the answer is given is what's important.

Pray indulge me, what are your perceived qualities of a way of answering a given question?

[TolyK]

ToylK

Answering questions:

TolyK, using your powers of prognostication, who is going to be lynched on Day 1 and for what reason?

I don't have those powers (sadly ) so I think it's going to be either the typical lynching of some random person who said something wrong and got mobrushed (usually a relatively inexperienced player) or one of the people-who-people-want-to-lynch-just-because-they're-Dariush. I seriously doubt that we'll hit scum D1, though.
Pengo, Tiruin, Shake, Me, Dariush? (I don't know most of these people, I'm just taking a guess. But that's what you asked me to do )

But you do have a vote. Which you aren't using at this current time.
So based on the 1st bolded statement, you somehow think it's going to be based on a mistake other than a scummy action -- based on how you worded that. On the 2nd, why so?
And another note: Why those certain people for your 'guess' [yes, I'm asking you reasons for every specific person mentioned], and why include yourself among them?

I do have a vote, that is true. Which I'm not using. Because of Real Life^TM. So far (until the weekends/friday) I only have time to read and reply to the posts addressed to me.
Yes, I do. Because in my experience scum being lynched day 1 due to a scummy action is a very rare thing, and townies acting scummy on purpose is just stupid, which is why I think we'll lynch a townie, rather than scum. Just statistics (not hard math, but general things).

Pengo, you, me, Shake are rather inexperienced imo (compared to, say, Toaster, Think), though I probably should've included Deathsword. And Dariush because people tend to not like him for his character . I'm included among them because I realize I'm pretty crappy at (internet) mafia, since I like to think logically rather than analyze posts, and tend to be told "y u no scumhunt". And I don't like to put my vote in most places. I'm trying to work on this, of course, but that's the answers to your questions.

Answering questions:

TolyK, using your powers of prognostication, who is going to be lynched on Day 1 and for what reason?

I don't have those powers (sadly ) so I think it's going to be either the typical lynching of some random person who said something wrong and got mobrushed (usually a relatively inexperienced player) or one of the people-who-people-want-to-lynch-just-because-they're-Dariush. I seriously doubt that we'll hit scum D1, though.
Pengo, Tiruin, Shake, Me, Dariush? (I don't know most of these people, I'm just taking a guess. But that's what you asked me to do )

This is just ridiculous. You offer absolutely no arguments for your opinions and actually openly admit that you don't give a fuck about your answer. Explain, Tolyk.

Don't put words in my mouth. I was asked to guess who would be lynched the first day, and I made an educated guess based on previous games, where that happens. And where did you get that I "don't give a fuck about (my) answer"? I answered what I thought (and still think). The "why" part I explain above - it usually happens.

I also find it funny that people that I bring up are the first to talk to me. But until Friday, sorry friends (and enemies >.>) but I'mma do my pile o' homework.

[Tiruin]

Humor me.

Logic.

Analysis.

How does analysis work without logic? How can logic work without analysis?

I do have a vote, that is true. Which I'm not using. Because of Real Life^TM. So far (until the weekends/friday) I only have time to read and reply to the posts addressed to me.
Yes, I do. Because in my experience scum being lynched day 1 due to a scummy action is a very rare thing, and townies acting scummy on purpose is just stupid, which is why I think we'll lynch a townie, rather than scum. Just statistics (not hard math, but general things).

Pengo, you, me, Shake are rather inexperienced imo (compared to, say, Toaster, Think), though I probably should've included Deathsword. And Dariush because people tend to not like him for his character . I'm included among them because I realize I'm pretty crappy at (internet) mafia, since I like to think logically rather than analyze posts, and tend to be told "y u no scumhunt". And I don't like to put my vote in most places. I'm trying to work on this, of course, but that's the answers to your questions.

Hmm, very shrewd details. Inexperienced in what way? How are you ranking us or sorting us?

Lastly, orange portion. What. In. The. World.

TolyK. D1 has the RVS. Random vote stage. Now, here is where we set up discussion. From that, we derive and use logic in taking out details and mistakes in other's wordings, moving on in the sense of conversation, rebuking through correction, analyzing through common knowledge. Scum make mistakes, and I see you've made yours.

Statistics, hmm? Why would a townie act scummy on purpose? Is this your whole take on the matter, and why do you think so?

Second orange portion. It's far from the blasted day end, bro. What is withholding a vote, matter, to you? Don't you want to find scum using it?

[Dariush]

Don't put words in my mouth. I was asked to guess who would be lynched the first day, and I made an educated guess based on previous games, where that happens.

I don't know most of these people, I'm just taking a guess. But that's what you asked me to do

The above doesn't sound like a person admitting to making an educated guess. It sounds like a person making a completely off-the-wall guess and adding 'There, I answered your question, now get the fuck off me and pester someone else '.

And where did you get that I "don't give a fuck about (my) answer"?

I don't know most of these people, I'm just taking a guess. But that's what you asked me to do

That's exactly where you said it.

I answered what I thought (and still think).

I don't know most of these people, I'm just taking a guess. But that's what you asked me to do

Wow, three of your statements in a row contradict the same phrase, but in all the different ways. You said you were taking a guess, but now you are completely sure of your words?

I also find it funny that people that I bring up are the first to talk to me.

Lolwut. Did you really, in all honesty expect people to ignore you after you called them the likeliest lynch candidates? Fuck you, Tolyk. I still want those answers, Toaster.

PPE'd by Tiruin.

[Shakerag]

Again, I said I was taking Hapah at face value and expecting a vote in his very next post.  I was obviously voilating the spirit of Toaster's #1 Scumtell™, but I wanted to see how Hapah would react to that.

So you found a bullshit reason to vote Hapah and see if he overreacted? In fact, so far, aside from answering questions and telling me to scumhunt, all you did was ask people stuff to see if they overreact.

And what, pray tell, do you suggest I should have been doing otherwise?  It's D1, we have no concrete info to go on, and we're not terribly long out of the RVS phase.  To quote yourself, "I am terribly sorry that the way I like to scumhunt doesn't fit into your standards of scumhunting."

As for why I'm not voting anyone... I guess I just didn't decide to throw around my vote.

Shake, deal with it. The V stands for voting, btw.

Shakerag, could you throw anything less at Deathsword?

I just have to wonder when someone isn't voting in the Random Voting Stage, is all.

Also, can you elaborate on that last line?

This is BS and you know it.  Since your super secret RVS things are so effective, what have you gathered so far from these our responses. And please answer my accusations in the other post.

Err ... what accusations?

Also, please read carefully next time.  To quote myself from earlier: "[...] then they won't be potentially effective anymore."  Emphasis added.  There's no RVS strategy that's foolproof or guaranteed at getting results.  In so far as just the RVS phase was concerned, I don't recall anything terribly significant sticking out to me.  Post-RVS, Deathsword is sticking out for not scumhunting, and Dariush is lightly pinging on my radar for having not started TUNNEL TUNNEL CHUNNEL TUNNEL on someone yet.  PPE: Whoops, maybe spoke too soon. 

Now, see, that's not quite how I read it. What I saw it as was an attempt to provoke Dar to give a "wrong" answer by being his usual self. I mean, that'd be an easy enough sell to quite a few people here, wouldn't it? Keep feeding Dar inane lines like this:

Dariush:  If you were a woodchuck, what would your favorite color be?

until he gives you some acidic comment in return, and then hold it up for the world to see as "proof" of his scummy-ness. Did you think it'd work? Dar might be a raging asshole most of the time, but give the guy a little credit, he's not stupid. Alternately, maybe you just kept on that line of questioning because you were asked where you were going with it. What did you expect besides the terse sort of response that he's given you?

Hapah ... Think about what you wrote there for a second.  If Dariush, who is "a raging asshole most of the time", responded to my questions in the manner of a raging asshole ... then what would I have to vote him about?  I dare say that I would claim that the lack of an adicic comment would be grounds for suspicion in that situation, yes? 

Also, that last question of mine to Dariush was more of a joke, son. 

Shakerag:

Hapah: Fair enough; you pass.  Unvote.

That was a pressure vote based on someone else's definition of a scumtell?

No, I voted him with a straight face and questionable reasoning to see how he'd react.

An important distinction I make is that I don't really consider RVS to be scumhunting. I don't see how the type of question matters. I'll try again. I'm going to paraphrase their post and exaggerate to make things clearer.
Penngo: I think claiming earlier is better than claiming later for these reasons...
Shakerag: Are you calling for a D1/D2 massclaim?
Shakerag is implying that Penngo is asking for a D1 massclaim, even though Penngo never said anything like that.

RVS can most certainly be a part of scumhunting, grasshopper. 

So ... in your native language, what does 'earlier' mean as compared to English?  Think about how many days a typcal game runs ... now think of how 'earlier as opposed to later' would apply relevant to that ...

He is simply throwing bullshit questions at Dariush to get him to overreact as he usually does, in order to get him lynched. He is also coming with excuses such as Toaster's #1 to vote others, Hapah in this case. Is accusing him of this, together with a vote, an OMGUS? I don't think so.

Sentence by sentence:
1 - I explained how this is terrible reasoning above.
2 - I explained the purpose of this above.
3 - OMGUS?  Reallllly?  You know why you have my vote on you, and it has nothing to do with you voting me. 

@121: The answer is/was predictable.  It's how the answer is given is what's important.

Pray indulge me, what are your perceived qualities of a way of answering a given question?

I'm not sure I follow exactly.  Are you looking for a checklist or something?  You look at the response, and analyze how it was given.  Is there hesitation?  Deflection?  Tone issues?  Is it an 'off' response for that person?  Etc. 

And I don't like to put my vote in most places.

"Please show me on the doll where the bad man put his vote in you."

[Dariush]

@121: The answer is/was predictable.  It's how the answer is given is what's important.

Pray indulge me, what are your perceived qualities of a way of answering a given question?

I'm not sure I follow exactly.  Are you looking for a checklist or something?  You look at the response, and analyze how it was given.  Is there hesitation?  Deflection?  Tone issues?  Is it an 'off' response for that person?  Etc. 

Okay, I'll rephrase it a bit. What would have been your reaction had I said in response to your second question 'I don't have scumbuddies, now what's up with the crappy questions, [VERYRED]Shakerag[/VERYRED]?'

(fun fact: the forum treats <red> tag as actual red colour. Huh.)

[Think0028]

Tiruin: When it's a question directly aimed at undermining the original question, then yes, it's an answer. And when you're answering my questions for me when we're in RVS, that's inserting yourself into my business, and I want to know why you felt like you should do that. That said, looking at your posts some more, I can understand what you were thinking.

Toaster: The same does not apply to you. Your intervention feels much more like you're trying to protect me. Still waiting on your response.

Dariush: Are you just voting TolyK because you're angry about being called out as a lynch candidate? What about his actions is scummy, rather than just seemingly contradictory? Your argument so far only shows to me that you do not like what TolyK is saying, not that what TolyK is saying is wrong or scummy.

[Teneb]

He is simply throwing bullshit questions at Dariush to get him to overreact as he usually does, in order to get him lynched. He is also coming with excuses such as Toaster's #1 to vote others, Hapah in this case. Is accusing him of this, together with a vote, an OMGUS? I don't think so.

3 - OMGUS?  Reallllly?  You know why you have my vote on you, and it has nothing to do with you voting me. 

That last part is becuase Tiruin accused me of OMGUSing you. I don't know where you got the idea that I am accusing you of OMGUS.

As for the second point, you may claim otherwise, but I still believe you were trying to find a BS reason to vote Hapah and drive it into a lynch.