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[zombie urist]

Day ends in ~1.5 hours.

3 to extend.
0 to shorten.

[borno]

Damn it. I had a huge post typed up, then lost it.  I'll retype it soon, but for now, extend.

[zombie urist]

Day extended to Thursday, October 25 ~9:00 PM PST.

[Nabic]

I would make a post at this point, but none of my questions to Mr.Zero, borno, Shoesandhats and Nerjin were answered. It's difficult to scumhunt when, aside from IC posts, nobody posts anything of substantial content.

[Jim Groovester]

The importance was it seemed certain meta plays you were advocating (ones that out newbies), and others that you were dissuading (ones that out ICs). However, I guess the former being a scumtell is an adequate excuse.

If something helps you find scum (within the bounds of not being a raging dickwad) you should use it. For this particular example, meta tells and meta plays can be valuable. If you know that somebody plays markedly different as scum than they do as town, and you see this behavior happening, then you should certainly point that out. It could be powerful evidence.

I generally dislike people using meta reasons since I feel it's a less powerful way to scumhunt, when people use them they are generally lazy about it and therefore wrong pretty much all of the time, and, for the most part, it works against me whenever that happens. I'm selfish and petty like that.

Jim Groovester, For clarification, shouldn't town be more concerned with finding mafia than acting town? Only mafia need concern themselves with acting like town should. I mean, of course acting like town helps you not get lynched, but staying alive with the mafia doesn't help if you aren't lynching them.

Yes.

Shakerag is right in that the best way to look town is to hunt aggressively. Being town and scumhunting is the same act, and incidentally, if you scumhunt aggressively, you will look like town. It's convenient that the best way to appear town and not be lynched is to aggressively hunt scum. Go figure.

However, I would be lying if I said that I wasn't extremely careful of how I appeared, even as town. It's my dirty little secret that I am obligated to provide you at personal cost to myself due to my ICness.

In any case, you've answered my question to my satisfaction, so I will unvote.

@Either IC, because borno was subbed in for Kingfisher1112, should do we basically give him a free day? Without extending further, there's not much time to get a read on him.

You can if you want to.

You also don't have to if you don't want to.

Bear in mind that reading through a backlog of game is time consuming, and putting together thoughts can also take a significant amount of time.


ShoesandHats, less for the crappy reasons for his vote and more for the convenient ways he avoids questioning people relevant to his suspicions.

Look! A tie!

[Mr.Zero]

@Nabic sory musy've missed it.

Mr.Zero, Would you like to ask me any actual questions, or are you just lashing out at anyone you can in a vain attempt to look like you're scum-hunting?

Ohoho, i only called you out on your semi-lurk that's all. Why are you getting so ehm... mad? about it?, do you have something to fear?

What reasons (aside from them voting for you) do you have for suspecting xny and Nerjin

I consider that they are directly tunneling me. But before i explain further, i'm not complaining about them attacking me. No. I'm suspicious that they BOTH are exclusively attacking me, while giving a rat's ass what happens around them.

So it gives me the following impression of them: "Job's done, we found scum. Let's lynch him and worry about the other one on day 2." While they aren't even  trying to find or search for any possible scumtells from scumbag #2. Which would make it even easier for town to spot/find scum on day 2.

They also stopped strengthening their case against me which against is laziness. Though XNY said that he will post something soon.

[Nabic]

I added in links to the quotes in case anyone wants to know what you were referencing.

Mr.Zero, Would you like to ask me any actual questions, or are you just lashing out at anyone you can in a vain attempt to look like you're scum-hunting?

Ohoho, i only called you out on your semi-lurk that's all. Why are you getting so ehm... mad? about it?, do you have something to fear?

Your question was vague and unhelpful to town. In mafia, asked questions necessitate answers. Spamming others with questions wastes everyone's time reading them.

What reasons (aside from them voting for you) do you have for suspecting xny and Nerjin

I consider that they are directly tunneling me. But before i explain further, i'm not complaining about them attacking me. No. I'm suspicious that they BOTH are exclusively attacking me, while giving a rat's ass what happens around them.

Why do you think their focus is solely on you? I don't know what you're looking at, but neither are exclusively attacking you.

Let's look at xny's posting history (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=85390). In his past 5 posts, he attacked you, Shakerag, and ShoesandHats. 2 of those were an extend and PFP. This is hardly him focusing on solely attacking you.
In Nerjin's past 3 posts, he has made one useless post, attacked you, and disagreed with ShoesandHats's reasoning. This hardly seems like he's ignoring everyone else. However, I would agree that he is being lazy and tunneling you.

Even so, I don't see a problem with that:

What reasons (aside from them voting for you) do you have for suspecting xny and Nerjin

So it gives me the following impression of them: "Job's done, we found scum. Let's lynch him and worry about the other one on day 2." While they aren't even trying to find or search for any possible scumtells from scumbag #2. Which would make it even easier for town to spot/find scum on day 2.

What's wrong with this? If they think you've cracked as mafia, shouldn't they be focusing on getting a lynch for that you?

They also stopped strengthening their case against me which against is laziness. Though XNY said that he will post something soon.

You've not been strengthening your case either. You haven't said anything to ShoesandHats since 2.5 days ago. Why? How are you different from the "laziness" of Nerjin and xny?


Nerjin, In addition to my previous questions, what is your read on Captain Ford?

[Mr.Zero]

Mr.Zero, Would you like to ask me any actual questions, or are you just lashing out at anyone you can in a vain attempt to look like you're scum-hunting?

Ohoho, i only called you out on your semi-lurk that's all. Why are you getting so ehm... mad? about it?, do you have something to fear?

Your question was vague and unhelpful to town. In mafia, asked questions necessitate answers. Spamming others with questions wastes everyone's time reading them.

Vague and unhelpful? Who are you to decide that? I just poked you for your semi-lurk and you jumped, then i asked that question. You totally avoided that question, now it does seem like you have something to hide. If you wouldn't you'd answered the question and produced that statement with it.

Please explain the lack of answer, even though it should be a easy question.

What reasons (aside from them voting for you) do you have for suspecting xny and Nerjin

So it gives me the following impression of them: "Job's done, we found scum. Let's lynch him and worry about the other one on day 2." While they aren't even trying to find or search for any possible scumtells from scumbag #2. Which would make it even easier for town to spot/find scum on day 2.

What's wrong with this? If they think you've cracked as mafia, shouldn't they be focusing on getting a lynch for that you?

Yes and no. They should get the lynch on me if they believe i'm scum, but @Nabic : shouldn't they scum hunt further and keep me on their scum leash?

They also stopped strengthening their case against me which against is laziness. Though XNY said that he will post something soon.

You've not been strengthening your case either. You haven't said anything to ShoesandHats since 2.5 days ago. Why? How are you different from the "laziness" of Nerjin and xny?

Whoa time flies so fast? I can't properly strenghten my case, because of him not posting anything but i can do this.

Shoesandhats oh my scummy friend, where are thee? Why have you hidden yourself from our sight?Have you given up?  Or are you creating that piece of evidence which will blow us out of our minds and in explicitly proves that i'm scum?

[Mr.Zero]

posted previous post too soon, wanted to add this.

ShoesandhatsQuite a few people have told you that, that certain tactic is too complicated and too risky to perform, cause the chance of backfiring is very high. Even more so in a BM game. Why do keep clinging to that theory instead of moving on and creating a new case against me or someone else?

or aren't you confident enough that you can support your vote if you don't continue using that theory?

[Nerjin]

Sorry I haven't been posting I generally rely on the email notification to tell me when people post. Haven't gotten it in a while so I popped on to ask if this was dead. Lo and behold I missed several big posts. I'm not at home right now but when I get there I will attempt to post my thoughts on what's been happening.

[ShoesandHats]

Expect a post from me when I've not just gotten out of bed.

[xny]

I absolutely hate to do this.

I seem to be in some kind of mini-depression, which is keeping me from relevant posting here. Ironically, I think the cause is how I can't find enough time to post. I can't really deal with that right now, so I think I'm going to have to request replacement.

Good luck to everyone, it was fun. I'll try to get back in the summer when I have more time. Apologies.

[Nerjin]

And here it is.

ShoesandHats: You said before that you thought xny and zero might be a scumteam. Why haven't you put any pressure on xny?

Actually, that's a good point. Though now that I've said that if I actually try to put pressure on him he'll know to keep cool.

Oh well in that case we shouldn’t ever pressure scum because they’ll be expecting it. That’s incredibly lazy. And pretty suspicious.

Shoesandhats You say you have your opinions and evidence, what's holding you back to display/share it ? Even if it's something that may be used against me.

I mostly didn't provide posts because if I did, my post alone would probably take up an entire page. Here, have some spoilered quotes in which you two go at each other.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

bluh

Those are all the quotes that I could find. Some of them are a bit messed up, but I'm not sure why. It gets across the point, though, and the point is that you two might be fighting a lot in order to seem like town and to draw suspicion away from your partnership.

As Jim once said: Scum rarely put together this sort of super-villian-esque plans.

That's hardly super-villain-ey. Super-villainey is scheming to build a giant death ray. This is just regular scum tactics.

This assumes that scum are trying to be super sneaky. I don’t deny that they do this but I’ve played scum. Near the end they’ll try this but near the beginning? No. They really don’t. They try to, as Jim pointed out, avoid eachother entirely.

Shoesandhats You say you have your opinions and evidence, what's holding you back to display/share it ? Even if it's something that may be used against me.

Pretty blatant OMGUS.

Pretty blatant pressure question.



 

Okay, I've come to a little bit of a conclusion. My scumhunting skills are almost certainly below everyone else's here, seeing as last time I played I was scum, but I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe, Mr. Zero and xny are scumbuddies. I emphasize the maybe. They seem a bit too eager to go at each others throats, and I get the impression that they're trying to cast suspicion off of themselves by constantly bombarding each other with questions and responses. I know I should probably grow a spine and be a bit more binary in my answers, but its a bit harder when you're used to actually knowing from the start who was town and who was your scumbuddy.

So, that's a vote for Mr. Zero.

You say it's a weak theory, but you're not even trying to strengthen it? Are you going to base yourself off this theory for the rest of the game?
[/quote][/spoiler]

This is exactly why I say that they are just a wee too eager to go at each other in particular, rather than anyone else. While it is a common scum tactic to simply ignore your partner for the most part, there's another tactic on the other end of the spectrum, which is to simply attack each other relentlessly. The goal of it being to draw suspicion away by saying "Look at us, we're far to aggressive towards each other to ever possibly be scum buddies!"

xny

If you and Mr. Zero aren't scum buddies, why are you focusing on him in particular?

Perhaps it’s because they think the other is scum. You know what? I think you’re being too cautious early on and too lazy in later arguments Shoesandhats

@Jim

Could you provide some more specific examples of his dodging? You tying it up seems a little odd. Jim did you just do it to protect your scum-partner by any chance?

[Nabic]

snip

Vague and unhelpful? Who are you to decide that? I just poked you for your semi-lurk and you jumped, then i asked that question. You totally avoided that question, now it does seem like you have something to hide. If you wouldn't you'd answered the question and produced that statement with it.

Please explain the lack of answer, even though it should be a easy question.

I can state my own opinion about your post, and I don't need special credentials to do so. Even though I didn't spell it out, I thought you could infer that my frustration didn't stem from fear. I was frustrated because your question didn't appear (to me) to contribute much to finding mafia.

snip

Yes and no. They should get the lynch on me if they believe i'm scum, but @Nabic : shouldn't they scum hunt further and keep me on their scum leash?

According to Dakakrian's Scumhunting Bible, they should be pushing for your lynch until they either can guarantee you're not scum, they get lynched or you get lynched.

IMHO, Although they should still keep their heads up to see if they can spot others, it's fine if they want to mainly focusing on getting the scum lynch.

snip

Whoa time flies so fast? I can't properly strenghten my case, because of him not posting anything but i can do this.

Shoesandhats oh my scummy friend, where are thee? Why have you hidden yourself from our sight?Have you given up?  Or are you creating that piece of evidence which will blow us out of our minds and in explicitly proves that i'm scum?

Actually, Shoes posted awhile back, and you completely ignored it. I've added a link to it below for you.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=117173.msg3720331#msg3720331

Mr.Zero, you still missed a question:

Why do you think their focus is solely on you?

Expect a post from me when I've not just gotten out of bed.

How's that going for you, ShoesandHats? Are you taking a break so you don't give yourself away?

Nerjin, you ignored my questions entirely.

[Nerjin]

Oh what was it again?