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[WillowLuman]

Obsidian casting chambers can train miners when you've finished digging out your Moria Pillars.

[Funk]

Have you confirmed this?

I mean. have you set up an item drop chamber, actually made a thousand featherwood training spears, and then dropped them on someone's head? Because I don't buy it.

Plus it's a serious waste of wood. I'm going to stick to quarry bush leaves, thank -you-.

i tested it in arena mode, with a 8 z drop and 500 real spears(training weapons are for the elfs) a time on 15 humans.
in fort mode youd only need may be 20 spears mixed in with quarry bush leaves and a leveler based repeater.

[nbp]

I've been testing a 1X2 retracting bridge chamber with a variety of items., and am generally thrilled with the results.  Armor user skills maxed out almost across the board, and huge boosts to a bunch of attributes.  Seeds are great, of course.  Earrings and rings also seem good.  Pigtail thread produces a fair number of bruises, a moderate number of broken bones, and, after subjecting a dozen or so dwarves to extensive training, a single broken spine.  I'm pulling the thread back out, and turning all of my bones into crafts, in hopes of getting more rings and earrings.

I wish there was a way to separate stacks of quarry bush leaves.

[Sutremaine]

I wish there was a way to separate stacks of quarry bush leaves.

Dump them out of the bag, take them to the depot, and split them up there.

[nbp]

I wish there was a way to separate stacks of quarry bush leaves.

Dump them out of the bag, take them to the depot, and split them up there.

Maybe I'm just missing it, but I can't seem to designate leaves to get hauled to the depot.

[WillowLuman]

The seeds thing is too gamey for me, I'll just go with spears. Has to turn out better than the time I got confused about which room I was looking at and filled my danger room with candy.

[nbp]

The seeds thing is too gamey for me, I'll just go with spears. Has to turn out better than the time I got confused about which room I was looking at and filled my danger room with candy.

I can't think of an example with seeds off the top of my head, but I remember watching a martial arts movie (the name of which I sadly can't remember) in which one of the protagonists has a training montage including a part where he stands in a courtyard full of cherry trees, furiously blocking all of the falling cherry blossoms.  I dunno if it's how _I_'d try to become a hard core badass; I'm just saying there's a precedent for being pelted with lightweight plant material as a training technique.

[nbp]

I had 4 stacks of aluminum coins hauled to the trade depot, threw together a bunch of macros, made a whole beard-load of trades, and then had 2000 individual aluminum coins.  Cleared out my item-tossing chamber, and filled it up with coins.  Sent in a steel-clad dwarf, and broke his hand.  Oops.  I looked through the combat logs, and found that one platinum bar had somehow sneaked in there.  So I removed the bar, and tried with another steel-clad dwarf.  Everything went smoothly.

I thought about it some more.  A whole stack of 500 aluminum coins already weighs less than 1 Urist.  So an individual aluminum coin must weigh less than 0.002 urists.  That's hardly anything.  So I sent in a militia dwarf, with bronze leggings, a mail shirt, helm, gauntlets, and high boots.  He walked out unscathed as well.  Looking through the combat logs more carefully, it seemed like most of the coins were being deflected by the cloak alone.

Curious as to just how little power a bunch of single aluminum coins have, I pulled the militia dwarf, drafted an unskilled, recently immigrated hauler, and sent him in in his regular clothes.  I pulled the lever.  It generated 20 pages of combat reports, but the idiot hauler was completely unscathed.  I pulled it again.  His stats were climbing steadily, but he was still uninjured.  I pulled it again a dozen or so times for good measure.  He still hadn't a scratch on him.

Gentle-dwarves, I give you what may be the perfect item for use in item-drop training, easily producable in huge quantities, gentle enough to but tickle your dwarves, while still fiendishly effective at maxing out their armor skill and attributes.  I call it, "The Coinstar".

The hauler's protection:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The combat report:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

His response:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

His stats before one lever pull:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

His stats after:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[WillowLuman]

However, Aluminum is a very very lightweight metal, not to mention rare, so the weight may be more because of low density than the properties of coins. Have you tested this with more common metal coins, like copper, iron, or tin?

[nbp]

However, Aluminum is a very very lightweight metal, not to mention rare, so the weight may be more because of low density than the properties of coins. Have you tested this with more common metal coins, like copper, iron, or tin?

Ok, so I split 4 stacks of platinum coins at the trading depot, for 2000 individual platinum coins.  I cleared out the Coinstar, filled it up with platinum, and let it rip.  10 cycles on a random hauler, in his regular clothes.  He didn't suffer any injury whatsoever, and his armor user skill and stats still went up.  Platinum is the densest metal, so I figure if it's safe, every metal should be safe.

Attributes before and after 10 cycles with 2000 platinum coins in 1X2 retracting bridge Coinstar.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So if this sort of item-drop training is safe for even civilians, it suggests trying to somehow automatically subject everyone to it.  Can we safely turn a bit of heavily traveled hallway into an item-drop training system?  Or a statue garden or something like that?  I suppose there'd be no way to keep someone from dropping a barrel of half-finished dwarven-ale in there, and turning the whole thing into a death trap.  Still, it seems like there ought to be some efficient way to put every dwarf in the fortress through this.

[WillowLuman]

If they could move around, like in a hallway, the items would be falling on empty floor a lot. You'd have to build many 1-tile chambers and subject people to training several at a time. Perhaps a way to automate item recovery/reloading? Do items falling on minecarts wind up in them?

[Urist Da Vinci]

...Do items falling on minecarts wind up in them?

Nope. Item ends up on ground.

nbp, Does the Coinstar injure cats, children, or babies? Since children/babies can learn, can we train them this way?

[nbp]

...Do items falling on minecarts wind up in them?

Nope. Item ends up on ground.

nbp, Does the Coinstar injure cats, children, or babies? Since children/babies can learn, can we train them this way?

I just stuffed a cat in the coinstar.  The coins don't injure the cat.  Actually, they weirdly pass through the cat.  But the cat bashed his head open on the ground.  I actually don't think I have any children in the fort at the moment.  I can lift my childcap a bit a check it out, but won't have results until sometime tomorrow at least.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[WillowLuman]

What... the... fuck?

I've never seen this "passes right through" before, on anything.

[Reelya]

I'll have to test this when I get home, so what's the general consensus for the best items to use? In my experience, seeds are a real pain to keep dwarves from putting them in bags.

If there's a way to separate quarry bush leaf stacks, that might be the best bet. Unless you want to mass produce socks, in which case you have to call your training room the "socklone".

Forbid the seeds once they're in the pit. Problem solved. The same with any other item pitted, e.g. the coins, which sounds like the best method yet.

This coin thing is the best idea yet.