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[miauw62]

We'll eventually recover tough.
If everything on earth dies, humanity will probably be amongst the the last things to die.

[pisskop]

2 billion dead within the first year of such a disater is conservative.  Try 70-90% gone from the[insert disaster here] and its fallout, including resultant rioting, disorder, war, affects in ecosystem, diatrust, brigands in power etc.  And what happens in the power vacuum created?

 Why are we so special to think we can't like the dinosaurs?  Humanity can dertainly die.

[Criptfeind]

Because Dinosaurs were incredibly stupid and fully reliant in their environment being perfect for them? Whereas humans are incredibly smart and can manipulate their environment.

[RedKing]

Yeah....that manipulation of the environment being sort of the problem here. But yes, we're adaptable. Plus, once enough of us are dead, the environmental pressures will diminish and eventually the Earth (being more or less a homeostatic system) will get back into a balanced state. Assuming we don't bork things badly enough that you get a runaway greenhouse feedback loop.

[Hanslanda]

Because Dinosaurs were incredibly stupid and fully reliant in their environment being perfect for them? Whereas humans are incredibly smart and can manipulate their environment.

This. Humans can live on the Antarctic continent, in the Gobi/Sahara/Death Valley, we've been to the very depths of the ocean and into space onto the fucking moon. I think we'll adapt. And if not, well, we won't be around to bitch about it, now will we? Might as well remain optimistic.

[pisskop]

okay, but you can expect society to change, and not exactly for the better... Remember the last time society collasped?  How about the aftermath of Western Rome?

[PTTG??]

Oh, you mean the flowering of Middle-Eastern culture? The height of China? The multiple great civilizations of the Americas? Just because some christians spent 600 years killing each other more emphatically, doesn't mean civilization actually declined.

This is distracting from the important point, which is that there are serious consequences to climate change. There are no apocalyptic consequences to climate change. We can mitigate the serious consequences, if we start now. This is what we need to present as a uniform face.

[kaijyuu]

This is distracting from the important point, which is that there are serious consequences to climate change. There are no apocalyptic consequences to climate change. We can mitigate the serious consequences, if we start now. This is what we need to present as a uniform face.

* kaijyuu can very much agree with this.

[pisskop]

Oh, you mean the flowering of Middle-Eastern culture? The height of China? The multiple great civilizations of the Americas? Just because some christians spent 600 years killing each other more emphatically, doesn't mean civilization actually declined.

This is distracting from the important point, which is that there are serious consequences to climate change. There are no apocalyptic consequences to climate change. We can mitigate the serious consequences, if we start now. This is what we need to present as a uniform face.

My point is that there are grave consequences to climate change.  You say this threads point is that there are serious consequences to climate change...  My point is you point!

As for that christianity comment, I'm neither sure where it came form nor where it was going, but clearly you hate christians [edit]not hate christians, hate the concept of christianity; what youve come to feel it represents.[/edit].  Never brought them up, and Rome was not a christian nation until well into its life.

We've both established that uniform action must be taken by all humanity.  If you would like, Ill find some articles written by those who support the view that excessive warming is at the least an ecological travesty.  Mind you this even concerns the fact that new phyla have stopped emerging, meaning that evolution is slowing down...

[Loud Whispers]

* kaijyuu is not going to cry doom and gloom.

A nasty global depression as we finally deal with the fact we can't use non-renewable resources forever? Sure. Death of humanity? Naw.

There aren't many people who are preaching total extinction (it'd only happen if we continued doing what we're doing the exact same way for 2 centuries or so, I really don't think we're that foolish as a species), but it's more fear for all the other inhabitants of our great biosphere that gets others such as myself worried.

This. Humans can live on the Antarctic continent, in the Gobi/Sahara/Death Valley

Yes but we don't thrive in such locations. The quality of living at the very least would drop, not taking into account everyone else that dies as a result.

we've been to the very depths of the ocean

We've explored 5% of it, never reached the deepest parts and have no hope of living down there
(Well any time in the near future anyways, high atmospheres and people don't mix well).

and into space onto the fucking moon.

A bit more on the extreme side of optimism, unfortunate as it is.

I think we'll adapt. And if not, well, we won't be around to bitch about it, now will we? Might as well remain optimistic.

...Or stress the importance of changing while changing our actions still greatly affects the outcome?

[Starver]

The problem is not with the part of humanity that would somehow survive a future of want and need (either because they lucked out in where they live, or because they managed to move to somewhere else that they could live, without much fuss), but with the fact that the rest of humanity is not going to lay down and die, in general, and will fight and claw their way through the aforementioned lucky/prepared sods in order to try to get a chance to survive themselves, and possibly degrade the chances of survival (certainly civilised survival) for everyone involved.  Not everyone will, but desperation provokes conflict, etc...

We already see it in 'normal' situations of need.  We already see that people are willing to bring out the heavy weapons in far less desperate straits, just because they think it's right to do so.  And what's more right than not letting yourself, your family, your culture or country or general philosophy die out.



(Oh, and we have gone to the deepest part of the ocean.  Two guys several decades ago, and Cameron[1] just this year.  So we haven't seen all of it, or even very much of the bits we've seen at all.  So, the minor correction aside, I know what you mean.)


[1] James, not David.  <insert further political comments here>

[Skyrunner]

We haven't been to the deepest part of the ocean, the part where even unmanned submersibles fail.
Manned submarines can only go so far.

[Il Palazzo]

we've been to the very depths of the ocean

We've explored 5% of it, never reached the deepest parts and have no hope of living down there
(Well any time in the near future anyways, high atmospheres and people don't mix well).

We haven't been to the deepest part of the ocean, the part where even unmanned submersibles fail.
Manned submarines can only go so far.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench#Descents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepsea_Challenger

Am I missing something?

[Skyrunner]

Duly noted :s Seems my archived book-knowledge was outdated.

Whch totally makes sense, since it's probably from 4th grade, half a decade or longer before...

[miauw62]

Didnt trieste reach the bottom in, like, 1960?
(assuming you are not that old)