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Author Topic: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.  (Read 7015 times)

Ancre

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2012, 09:26:16 am »

To be fair, France loves revolution. They went from a Monarchy to a Republic to an Empire to a Monarchy to a different Monarchy to a Republic to an Empire to a Republic to a one month long Communist Dictatorship back to the same Republic to divided between a Nazi Puppet and Exiled Dictatorship to a Provisional Republic to a Republic and finally to a different Republic that rules to this day. Long live the Fifth French Republic, may it reach the weekend intact.

:D

To be fair, many of these regime changes, especially toward the end of the list, are not the result of revolutions per se. 1789 to the 1850s were indeed troubled times, but after that regimes mostly fell due to external issues (wars and stuff like that). I don't think the fifth republic will end anytime soon.
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scriver

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2012, 09:47:22 am »

Dammit RedKing, I had this great post in my where I told everyone that everybody who wasn't either Chinese or had an education in Chinese society should, for their own sake, just refrain from posting until RedKing gets here and can tell them why they're wrong. But you get here to early and now you spoiled it for me.


2. The interethnic unrest of places like New York and Chicago doesn't exist because China's 98% Han. The minorities are mostly in their own provinces or subregions thereof. It's more like the reservation system in the US than the polyglot "melting pot" we're used to. Thus, any ethnic unrest is rather easily (and harshly) dealt with.

They do however share the rising extreme nationalism with each other, unless I'm mistaken?
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DJ

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2012, 11:30:55 am »

In Yugoslavia different ethnicities were for the most part in different states (Bosnia being a notable exception), and we all know how that went.
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mainiac

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2012, 11:42:09 am »

In Yugoslavia different ethnicities were for the most part in different states (Bosnia being a notable exception), and we all know how that went.

Did the Serbians in Yugoslavia outnumber all other ethnicities combined by more then 10-1 ratio?  Because if the answer is no then it's not a very good comparison.
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ECrownofFire

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2012, 12:48:56 pm »

Definitely going to happen eventually if the current regime doesn't just step down (highly unlikely). From my outsider's perspective, the Chinese look to be getting tired of their oppressive government. There is a chance that the government steps it down, as they have been willing to reform economics to at least allow private business, but it's unlikely at best. They haven't exactly shown themselves to be open to change like that.
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Kamin

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2012, 12:59:53 pm »

Thank you for posting the book for me, King. I honestly have been over this inane question so many times that I don't even feel like typing about it anymore.

mainiac

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2012, 01:06:19 pm »

There is a chance that the government steps it down, as they have been willing to reform economics to at least allow private business, but it's unlikely at best.

Yes, that's very unlikely to happen seeing as they already did it 40 years ago and it's hard to do that twice.

Disregard, misread this post.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 01:11:10 pm by mainiac »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Scelly9

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2012, 01:08:42 pm »

One month of communism, coming this fall!

That sounds incredibly strange.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2012, 01:09:51 pm »

Even the PRC admits they aren't communist anymore. The party line is currently "Socialism with Chinese characteristics", i.e., anything the government wants.
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lordcooper

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2012, 01:16:50 pm »

Sounds suspiciously like democracy to me.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2012, 01:19:30 pm »

A democracy where one party controls 3/4ths of the government and the other 1/4th is controlled by eight different parties that all publicly pledge allegiance to the major party? Yes.
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RedKing

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2012, 01:29:33 pm »

Dammit RedKing, I had this great post in my where I told everyone that everybody who wasn't either Chinese or had an education in Chinese society should, for their own sake, just refrain from posting until RedKing gets here and can tell them why they're wrong. But you get here to early and now you spoiled it for me.

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2. The interethnic unrest of places like New York and Chicago doesn't exist because China's 98% Han. The minorities are mostly in their own provinces or subregions thereof. It's more like the reservation system in the US than the polyglot "melting pot" we're used to. Thus, any ethnic unrest is rather easily (and harshly) dealt with.

They do however share the rising extreme nationalism with each other, unless I'm mistaken?
Who, the Tibetans and Uighurs? I don't know that I'd say they "share" nationalism. I mean, I don't think you're going to see ETIM (the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, a Uighur seperatist/Islamist group) going out of their way to help the Tibetan independence movement. They're intrinsically different situations. The remaining ethnic minorities have no real nationalist sentiments that I'm aware of. Along with the Uighur and Tibetans, the Zhuang, Mongols and Hui have their own "autonomous" provinces. There's some discussion that the Yi people in southwest China would like their portion of Yunnan to be split off as an autonomous province, but it's a minor issue.

One of the big differences with Xinjiang (the Uighur province) and Xizang/Tibet is population percentages. Even in their autonomous provinces, the Hui, Mongols and Zhuang are a significant minority (19%, 17% and 32% respectively). But in Xinjiang, Uighurs are a plurality with 45% vs 41% Han (and that's after many years of a deliberate policy of encouraging Han settlement in Xinjiang). Tibet is a whopping 92% Tibetan vs 6% Han.

There's a deliberate policy of Sinicization in both regions, which the central government makes no apologies for. The thought is that once these areas are majority Han, most of the unrest problems will go away. It's kind of China's self-defense mechanism for millenia: Peace through superior demographics. You will be assimilated.  :P

The problem being that neither province is particularly the easiest place to settle (Xinjiang being mostly a vast desert, and Tibet being full of mountains, yaks, and arid steppes) and both are in the extreme west, far away from the economic boom in the east. With the exception of the Chongqing SEZ in Sichuan, there's a general rule that wealth lies in a crescent along the coast. The further inland you get, the less development and the less free enterprise. So not all that many Han are enamored of the idea of moving there, especially when they know their new neighbors are not going to be especially welcoming. It's internal imperialism.

In Yugoslavia different ethnicities were for the most part in different states (Bosnia being a notable exception), and we all know how that went.
What mainiac said. There are very few major nations that are as ethnically homogenous as China (Japan comes to mind as one). Any kind of "ethnic civil war" would be comparatively short and very, very bloody for the minority.

Definitely going to happen eventually if the current regime doesn't just step down (highly unlikely). From my outsider's perspective, the Chinese look to be getting tired of their oppressive government. There is a chance that the government steps it down, as they have been willing to reform economics to at least allow private business, but it's unlikely at best. They haven't exactly shown themselves to be open to change like that.
Really? So there's mass marches by millions of Chinese daily? Cause that's when you know that at least a small minority of Chinese are fed up. They grumble about their government (or more specifically, about certain mid-level bureaucrats). Not so much the entire political structure of the PRC. That's like suggesting that a recall election of Scott Walker means that Wisconsinites are ready to lead a national revolt. My take on things is that Hu Jintao is still pretty popular with most people. He's disappointed the most democratic-leaning elements in Chinese society for tightening up on censorship after initially promising to open up society somewhat, but most other people don't have as much problem with it. I'd say it's analogous to Democrats' opinions of Obama--the most ardent liberals are somewhat disappointed (and the very hardcore ones may outright protest him) but most still have a positive opinion.
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mainiac

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2012, 01:33:08 pm »

Come clean RedKing, you won't be happy until you have Obama's head on a spike.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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RedKing

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2012, 01:46:25 pm »

Yes...I am a totally a hardcore liberal. See, I am eating this packet of granola and wearing these Birkenstocks to indicate the degree of my liberalness! Next, I will have sex with five different people, on a bed paid for with government subsidies....

....you're not buying it, are you?









Can I still have the five-way?  :P
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kaijyuu

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2012, 01:53:06 pm »

You have to at least buy me a drink first.



Anywho, if China falls, I don't think anyone will see it coming.
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