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Author Topic: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.  (Read 7106 times)

Scoops Novel

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Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« on: September 05, 2012, 06:26:14 pm »

Many would agree that the main reason China retains it's position among its people is directly tied to it's economic growth amongst other factors, and we know it's starting to slow. We also know that dissent isn't quite a rarity, though widespread actions are currently rare. Personally, i'd be amazed if governments didn't have contingency plans for this scenario. My question is, how do you think the government would and are trying to prevent it, how it would start, the international response, current plans and factors involved, as well as potential repercussions, if you think it's even likely that is.
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2012, 06:34:01 pm »

As a chinese person, I can only imagine it ending like Tian an men square. I doubt other countries would do anything than "condemn" the situation.
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2012, 06:44:48 pm »

Is there any information about this? I'm woefully ignorant about most of the comings and goings of China sadly.

Eagle_eye

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2012, 06:52:29 pm »

First of all, thank you for bringing up all these discussion topics. You're awesome.

I think a revolution in China is basically a certainty. Dissidents are getting widespread attention, their economy is slowing down and will probably never expand at the same rate again, and there's tons of government corruption. If you throw a few hundred extra million people back into poverty, they're not going to be happy about it.
   Additionally, China as a unified entity is the result of successful conquest, not cultural similarity. There's a lot of conflict with ethnic minorities, especially the Tibetans and Uighurs(spelling?). I definitely expect the western regions of China to break off or at least be granted considerably more autonomy, and if things get really dire, I would not be surprised to see the core of China be split up between the PRC and rebellion(s). 
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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2012, 06:55:09 pm »

... There will be no revolution; it simply won't happen. I could write you all a book, but I'm just going to spare us all the trouble and leave it at that.

lordcooper

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2012, 07:37:44 pm »

There will almost definitely be a revolution, if you look at things on a large enough timescale.  Same with America, the UK, and pretty much every country except France.
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Heron TSG

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2012, 07:41:15 pm »

Because France has never revolted.
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Eagle_eye

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2012, 07:52:15 pm »

Because France has never revolted.

They don't revolt anymore, they just all go on strike.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2012, 08:28:28 pm »

To be fair, France loves revolution. They went from a Monarchy to a Republic to an Empire to a Monarchy to a different Monarchy to a Republic to an Empire to a Republic to a one month long Communist Dictatorship back to the same Republic to divided between a Nazi Puppet and Exiled Dictatorship to a Provisional Republic to a Republic and finally to a different Republic that rules to this day. Long live the Fifth French Republic, may it reach the weekend intact.

Anyway, I definitely see revolution in China's future. Freedom and Democracy (TM) is hitting the Middle East hard right now, as we've all observed. It'll spread to China too, soon enough. You cannot stop the future, only slow it down. If the PRC knows what's good for them they'll go the route of the USSR and give up the power instead of making the people take it by force. They seem to have been heading that way ever since Mao Tse-tung the Extraordinarily Insane died.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 08:31:08 pm by MetalSlimeHunt »
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Eagle_eye

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2012, 09:33:34 pm »

I really don't think the Paris Commune counts as a communist dictatorship, if that's what you're talking about. Perhaps an absolute democracy.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2012, 09:35:46 pm »

The way it acted I'd call it a dictatorship. But I don't particularly feel like arguing about the nature of a government that lasted one month.
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Svarte Troner

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2012, 09:44:54 pm »

From what I understand about China is that they're gradually adopting some form of bastardized capitalism. Albeit without the accompanying "Freedom and Democracy" (TM). I don't know if this is an indication of a possible revolution or what.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2012, 09:52:57 pm »

It isn't so much bastardized capitalism as it is unregulated capitalism. In theory acting like that is against the law even in the Special Economic Zones. In practice, very few people care and a very large number of Chinese authorities can and will take bribes from anyone and everyone for any service they could potentially render to you.

Nonetheless, China's human rights are an order of magnitude better now than they were under Mao, or even his immediate successors. That doesn't mean it's good, but the Chinese government these days would have difficulty doing things like wiping out entire villages suspected of activities disapproved of by the state, which Mao did with some regularity if I recall correctly. There is a growing middle class, but most people in China are still very poor, peasants even. In China they wouldn't talk about the 1%, they'd talk about the .0001% when it comes to the rich. I suspect this top-heavy social arrangement to topple down sooner or later.
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RedKing

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Re: Thoughts on a potential Chinese revolution.
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2012, 08:33:36 am »

Social inequity is the number one concern when it comes to stability in the PRC. Right now what you're seeing is a situation akin to the late 1920's in the US: rapid industrialization, rapid urbanization, a steadily rising standard of living (at least in the cities), and a relative handful of uberwealthy. Guys like Jack Ma are China's Carnegie/Vanderbilt/Rockefeller. As in the 20's, there's not so much a resentment of the uber-rich as much as there is an aspiration to be like that, and an enjoyment of this newfound economic freedom compared to rural village life (with a concomitant reactionary movement against it by those left out, and a nostalgia for "the old days").

Some major differences:
1. Religion doesn't play a role. You don't have fiery preachers railing about alcohol and flappers and "immoral lifestyles" in the cities.
2. The interethnic unrest of places like New York and Chicago doesn't exist because China's 98% Han. The minorities are mostly in their own provinces or subregions thereof. It's more like the reservation system in the US than the polyglot "melting pot" we're used to. Thus, any ethnic unrest is rather easily (and harshly) dealt with. And with the exception of the Uighur and Tibetans, the other ~50 official minorities aren't a problem.
3. The current (and hopefully future) leadership are technocrats, not ideologues. They believe in bending rather than breaking. If they see a major source of economic unrest, they'll take steps to mitigate it.
4. Corruption is a major problem as well (as it was in the US at the turn of...okay, let's just say forever). But there's a cultural difference. We have this weird notion ingrained into us from childhood that the Founding Fathers were all pure and noble and that government in the US started off perfect and it's only over time that it's gotten more and more corrupt. So we get angry.

China has been dealing with problems of corrupt governance for at least 3000 years. There's more of an implicit understanding that this is the natural state of things. They still get angry, but it's anger focused at the corrupt officials, not a "tear down the whole damn thing and start over" kind of rage that's so popular in the West. Yes, to be fair, they DID tear down the whole damn thing twice in the 20th century and at least a dozen times over the last couple of millenia. But there's an understanding that doing so means a LOT of people are going to die. Dynastic change is essentially the ruling agency being a phoenix, reborn in the ashes of its own funeral pyre. It's only worth it when the last incarnation is so sick, weak and ineffective that it's worth going through that violence. The current incarnation is nowhere near that sick, weak *or* ineffective.

I don't see it happening anytime in the next 10 years at least, unless the global economy just totally implodes so fast that it takes China with it. In which case, we'll all have more immediate problems to worry about.

EDIT: I will also say that I don't ever see China becoming a democracy. Ever. There are pro-democracy activists, but in my experience the vast majority of Chinese that I've talked to aren't particularly interested in political self-determination, but rather economic self-determination. If they can make enough money to get an apartment and a car and afford a child, they're cool with whatever.  Perhaps at some point in the future when the "middle class" is large enough, there might be serious inroads in that direction, but even then I dont think it would be wise. I've long held a personal theory that there's an upper and lower limit on the population numbers where democracy works. China is simply too large to be an effective democracy. (I would argue the same thing about India....it *is* a democracy, and it's mostly ineffective at the national level. It only works by being a mostly decentralized federal system where the real work gets done at the state level).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 08:42:48 am by RedKing »
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