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[DavionFuxa]

Knocking off other products is a way of life in some other industries... it just doesn't work well in the gaming industry. Well usually anyway.

Actually, I think it is safe to say most games in the video gaming industry are knock offs of others - or at least built off of them in some way. This is especially true of games that build off of other games that show merit. The thing though is that the knock off game has to offer something different, revolutionary, updated, or outright better that people really like to be successful.

That's why the starter games from Blizzard are usually so successful at least I think.

[WaffleEggnog]

Knocking off other products is a way of life in some other industries... it just doesn't work well in the gaming industry. Well usually anyway.

Actually, I think it is safe to say most games in the video gaming industry are knock offs of others - or at least built off of them in some way. This is especially true of games that build off of other games that show merit. The thing though is that the knock off game has to offer something different, revolutionary, updated, or outright better that people really like to be successful.

That's why the starter games from Blizzard are usually so successful at least I think.

Like Minecraft and infiniminer.

I still think that DF spin-offs with graphics make more money then they deserve, and get too popluler from played by famous Youtube people all the time.

[Azated]

The problem with 'ripoffs' is that you never know when it started.

For example, take the modern assault rifle. They're ripoffs of the very first assault rifle, the German StG 44, which was a ripoff of the first fully automatic weapon, the machine-gun, which was a ripoff of the first firearm, which were ripoffs of crossbows, which were ripoffs of bows, which were ripoffs of slings, which were ripoffs of the human arm. If you really want to get into it, you could even argue that the human arm was a ripoff of a previous species leg, which was a ripoff of yet another species tail, which was a ripoff of another species extra flap of skin.


TL;DR: Everything is a ripoff.

[AutomataKittay]

The problem with 'ripoffs' is that you never know when it started.

For example, take the modern assault rifle. They're ripoffs of the very first assault rifle, the German StG 44, which was a ripoff of the first fully automatic weapon, the machine-gun, which was a ripoff of the first firearm, which were ripoffs of crossbows, which were ripoffs of bows, which were ripoffs of slings, which were ripoffs of the human arm. If you really want to get into it, you could even argue that the human arm was a ripoff of a previous species leg, which was a ripoff of yet another species tail, which was a ripoff of another species extra flap of skin.


TL;DR: Everything is a ripoff.

Does that means the dwarven wrestlers are the most powerful and original weapon because they can rip off the ripoffs manually?

[DavionFuxa]

...

...

Like Minecraft and infiniminer.

I still think that DF spin-offs with graphics make more money then they deserve, and get too popluler from played by famous Youtube people all the time.

That's Marketing and Product Development though; if done right a decent enough game that easier to use and fun to use is going to cater to a lot of people - not to mention the hard work of a developer behind it that you can't just help respect for doing the work.

[Deon]

I wonder how many roguelike authors and ASCII game makers pay royalties to the creator of Rogue?

[WaffleEggnog]

I wonder how many roguelike authors and ASCII game makers pay royalties to the creator of Rogue?

Most of the people who have bought or are interested in towns don't even know what Dwarf Fortress is! People arnt even relating it to DF, they are relating it to Minecraft! Most people don't see Towns or Gnomoria as a DF with graphics, they see it as a 2D Minecraft!

[Cruxador]

You know, I agree with what a lot of people are saying - that shared elements don't make a game a rip off. But I don't see much else to Gnomoria beyond that. I've only played the demo, so maybe there's something cool later, but all I've seen looked like a dumbed down Dwarf Fortress, but with more awkward and finicky controls. The graphics seem to be itsin sole selling point, but are inferior to Stonesense and not much better than a tileset.

[darkrider2]

Are they really relating it to Minecraft?

Most people just relate games to the ones they've already played or are playing. More people play minecraft than DF; so I could see how most would be a relative term there.

[Podesta]

I wonder how many roguelike authors and ASCII game makers pay royalties to the creator of Rogue?

Most of the people who have bought or are interested in towns don't even know what Dwarf Fortress is! People arnt even relating it to DF, they are relating it to Minecraft! Most people don't see Towns or Gnomoria as a DF with graphics, they see it as a 2D Minecraft!

Well, as far as I know both the users and the media are relating it to Dwarf Fortress. Actually, the most frequent comment is: "I always wanted to play Dwarf Fortress, but never was able to dos so.."
But if you say that there are people that are not making the connection, well, each person have a very unique way of seeing the world..
And just to close i would like to, one more time, quote the creater of tows:

"BurningPet says:

Nothing can beat DF level of simulation and amount of content that was added to it in the last 6 years. games like gnomoria/towns can only be an answer to players who doesn’t need that depth and require better graphics/interface.
Hopefully, after they finish playing those games, they will realise they need something more and go play DF overcoming their need for graphics and the steep interface learning curve.
For me, one reason for making Towns is to be just that, a bridge for those who never really discovered DF because the interface and graphics threw them off. its really hard for most people to go from a regular RTS or even Settlers to DF without such a bridge and it always makes me happy seeing there are many people who rediscovered DF because of us."[/b]

[Detonate]

Hello friends,

I have recently found a game called "Dungeon Keeper". It isn't on Steam yet but God knows they'll try to push their dirty wares there too. They are charging money for it over at GoG. It's almost exactly like DF, just with shinier graphics.

It's probably a copyright violation. Please sue these bastards for every penny they have.

[Greendogo]

here here! 

[darkrider2]

Escaped Lunatics making rational posts! All hail the future!

*ahem* Anyway.

Anyone attempting to copy the feel of DF (attempting, because that task is impossible) are probably under one of two mindsets. 1) They realize there's a customer base for it and are seeking to get a little profit. These aren't that great because they usually dumb down the features and details to make development time shorter and less costly. Since games with interfaces that make the C-130 look easy to fly aren't really that accessible.

Or 2) They love DF and are inspired. In which case I'm totally fine with it.

[Mr Space Cat]

Alexander got a point there. I have heard stories of how all early FPS games were "doom ripoffs".

By the by, shortly after getting into DF I found the joy of playing PC Doom with the Brutal Doom mod on GZDoom and mouselook. Long story short, it's a better, faster, probably the greatest "FPS experience" I've ever experienced, considering I don't play Quake. Of note is the fact that Doom is considered the "Grandfather of FPS," yet the game delivers a quality of gameplay superior to the "ripoffs" produced since then.

Same thing with DF in my opinion.  If people want to play the "knockoffs", that's fine. But by playing the games, people may discover a genre of game they may never would've got into through DF, since the sheer wall that is the learning curve would've turned them away. After gaining experience, real fans of the genre would then eventually turn to Dwarf Fortress, if they really love the gameplay. Boom! Level up.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Considering I'm playing Doom primarily with a mod and not the original game, my argument may be a bit void there.  . The basic point is still there.

[Podesta]

Escaped Lunatics making rational posts! All hail the future!

*ahem* Anyway.

Anyone attempting to copy the feel of DF (attempting, because that task is impossible) are probably under one of two mindsets. 1) They realize there's a customer base for it and are seeking to get a little profit. These aren't that great because they usually dumb down the features and details to make development time shorter and less costly. Since games with interfaces that make the C-130 look easy to fly aren't really that accessible.

Or 2) They love DF and are inspired. In which case I'm totally fine with it.

Or maybe they "dumb down" the games because a lot of people doesn't actually care about the level of depth of DF (and here I would like to link to an article from David Baumgart, art director from Gaslamp Games. They are currently working on clockwork empire, another "DF ripoff": http://www.gaslampgames.com/2010/07/16/game-design-dialectic-dwarf-fortress-and-goblin-camp/ ), and at the end of the day, who want the depth of DF can always play Dwarf Fortress (WOW, right!?).