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[postm00v]

Hello,

I came across this game called Gnomoria, which is currently trying to get on Steam. The guy is actually charging money for this game, even though it is almost exactly like DF. It's just Dwarf Fortress with shinier graphics.

I'm not sure if this is a violating of copyright, but I thought I should at least mention it here.

[10ebbor10]

It's not, and It has been discussed already.

For more information, see the other games forum, where there's an entire thread about it.

[miauw62]

Agreed with above. Not everything like DF is instantly a ripoff, you know.

[postm00v]

Ah, haven't been here for some time, so I haven't seen the other threads. Excuse my ignorance.

[Cruxador]

Yeah, it's basically DF, but with Stonesense-level graphics and a much simpler fort mode and nothing else. And the interface, despite looking prettier, is actually kind of a hassle to use.

But, who cares? If anything it's nice as a potential "gateway drug" for people who might want to get into DF in the future.

[Podesta]

They are different games. Same genre? Yeah, but different. It's just like towns, a game of dwarves, castle story, goblin camp, clockwork empire, and the list goes on if you wish to do so... Anyways, for gnomoria and towns, they are really cool developres, who are also big fans of DF. You can find a lot of post of the gnomoria creator here on the forum (There is a discussing thread for gnomoria..) and just to quote the towns developer, on rps:

"BurningPet says:

Nothing can beat DF level of simulation and amount of content that was added to it in the last 6 years. games like gnomoria/towns can only be an answer to players who doesn’t need that depth and require better graphics/interface.
Hopefully, after they finish playing those games, they will realise they need something more and go play DF overcoming their need for graphics and the steep interface learning curve.
For me, one reason for making Towns is to be just that, a bridge for those who never really discovered DF because the interface and graphics threw them off. its really hard for most people to go from a regular RTS or even Settlers to DF without such a bridge and it always makes me happy seeing there are many people who rediscovered DF because of us."

[Laurin]

It's noticeable though that these kind of games sprout like plump helmets.

If they were tablets or mobile phones, they would be sued already and patent wars were ongoing. 

[CaptApollo12]

I find it highly immoral how the major points of describing a DF are exactly what gnomoria is. My problem is the developing team is trying to make money out of it without paying royaltys to toady. I havent played it but a look through pictures and descriptions says to me that it is a rip-off and credit needs to go where credit is due. I understand the arguement that it helps DF's popularity. BUT the purpose of the game are not to do so. The purpose is to make money and that is where I draw the line.

[miauw62]

I dont think you can patent general game ideas.
Its all their ORIGINAL code, so meh. I also think toady does not want to be payed royalties.

[10ebbor10]

I dont think you can patent general game ideas.
Its all their ORIGINAL code, so meh. I also think toady does not want to be payed royalties.

I'm pretty sure you can. I remember(not sure) that one compagny patented glowing arrows in the air to guide players for example.

To their's no patent encroachment here. I mean, both are agent based games that focus on mining, but that's about it. That's not the description of a game, but of an entire genre.

[Greendogo]

(The following rambling message isn't to anyone in particular, I'm just annoyed at the casual calls for litigation, usage of the term "ripoff" and the tut-tutting of monetary gain in some posts above)

Toady gets paid thousands of dollars a year making DF, in donations.  Just saying.

Toady may be one of the best game developers in the world, according to some measurements.  He is certainly my favorite, trumping Notch in dedication and in a willingness to create depth.  Notch is very cool as well, though he no longer personally heads up Minecraft development and is on to bigger and better things (0x10c).  The dude making Gnomoria is also a cool dude.  I'm glad we have so many cool game designers in a very similar genre-space.  We'll have a proliferation of ideas and the DF-like market will swell.

Toady will always be my favorite developer, and I think he deserves to make millions in some way (commercialization, kickstarter, selling themed hats...) but he obviously is quite happy to take donations for right now, and has repeatedly seemed very supportive of all the new games popping up that are similar to DF.  If he ever feels like he wants to make bank, he has a lot of options to do so.

My point is, just because Toady isn't building the gold-brick house that he could be (maybe he will in the future, if he wants), don't try to tell me/us that Gnomoria shouldn't be supported or liked because its developer *gasp* wants to make a living at his chosen profession.  He's making a game a lot of people want to play (dumbed down DF with graphics), so he's obviously meeting a demand.

Also, your arguments calling for litigation due to some kind of copyright violations open up a huge ethical can of worms concerning intellectual property that I would hope we here at the Bay12 forums would rather just leave in the tackle box.  If I'm wrong about that, awesome, let's do it.

[alexandertnt]

I find it highly immoral how the major points of describing a DF are exactly what gnomoria is. My problem is the developing team is trying to make money out of it without paying royaltys to toady. I havent played it but a look through pictures and descriptions says to me that it is a rip-off and credit needs to go where credit is due. I understand the arguement that it helps DF's popularity. BUT the purpose of the game are not to do so. The purpose is to make money and that is where I draw the line.

To be blunt:

The dev team do not owe anyone royalties for simply taking inspiration from another game. Being required to pay royalties would imply some sort of intellectual-rights issue. They have not stolen any intellectual property from DF. None. DF took quite a large ammount of inspiration from other games/mythologies (some quite heavily) lets not forget.

The purpose of the game is what the game dev's decide, as it's their game. They developed it all and they stole no IP to do so. Simply being"like" DF does is not require it to help DF's popularity in any way. It would be awesome, but certainly not a requirement. The purpose of the game is to make money, and the dev's are morally allowed to do that.

Think the Doom/Wolfenstein 3D to other FPS's ("Doomlikes", as they used to be called). The relation between DF and "DFlikes" is similar to that.

Also, "highly" immoral? There are many things that are "highly" immoral. This is not one of them.

[darkrider2]

Oh yeah wasn't this game somewhere on the forum before? Its pretty far off the main page so I'm not going to complain about a new topic.

Anyway, yeah they can do whatever, we've got a pretty secure community since most people in here wouldn't give up DF for any other game, its like a cult.

[miauw62]

Alexander got a point there. I have heard stories of how all early FPS games were "doom ripoffs".

[darkrider2]

Knocking off other products is a way of life in some other industries... it just doesn't work well in the gaming industry. Well usually anyway.