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[Graknorke]

Well no, a lot of things would get damaged going through an atmosphere at escape velocity, then being exposed to a vacuum and extreme amounts of radiation.

I wasn't saying that Mars is a worse idea, or that 9 months isn't better than 300, just that in an emergency there'll still be a long wait.

Though when you say "a single orbit" do you mean like a figure of 8 type thing? Or just that one set of shuttles would be sent our occasionally to make all transfers in one go, so from Earth to Mars, then things from Mars to Earth.

[10ebbor10]

Um, sorry. I meant a single orbiter. Ie as single reuseable space only ship ferrying back and forth for the next x years.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Due to RL, I'll be replying here more sporadically.

Nope, landing on the polar regions is bad. Take off uses way to much fuel there. I support we search and find an underground glacier and land there.

Why would it take more fuel there than at Olympus Mons? Just elevation?

Why do we have to land on Mars? I propose Jupiter's moon Callisto.

-snip-

First off, why Callisto? I'd suggest colonies on Io and/or Europa, to put us that much closer to the geothermal power and water, if we were settling the Jovian moons.
Europan life is probably no more complex than what lives in deep-sea trenches.
Finally, launching a war from the Jovian moons would be almost impossible, and it would probably be easier to apply for grants if we settled a nearer location first.
Also, I suggested that. It was shot down in favor of Mars. Go figure.

but waiting 15 years for support would be too much .

So would 9 months. Really, if you can hold out that long, it's not an emergency. It's just be something extra that is needed in the shipping schedule.

A bigger problem would be getting people there. A spaceship capable of holding enough fuel and either resources or resource-reprocessing equipment to last us 15 years one-way is going to be a lot harder than if we only go 9 months between refueling. It's about 20x as big an issue, in fact,  so we'd probably need around 20x as much fuel to power life support and such.

Um, sorry. I meant a single orbiter. Ie as single reuseable space only ship ferrying back and forth for the next x years.

I'd prefer to have some backups. That ship is going to be the Terrans' first target once the war starts. My goal, as far as my influence in the sphere of spaceshipping goes, is to make a fleet of spaceships superior to what Terra can muster. A dozen old rockets and what you made from the Space Shuttle? We have half a dozen warships, a bomber, three freighters, and a ship that can transport thousands of people from Terra to Mars in under a year, plus backups. Oh, and bases on Luna, Io, Europa, and in the asteroid belt. Take that, UN. Now surrender or you're getting a facefull of nukes, rocks, and artificial-magma-filled asteroids carved into the shape of a fist with the middle finger extended with the fingertip consisting of a small fusion warhead.

[WaffleEggnog]

Here's an idea. What if we launched several "Satelites", filled with food, power, and the like, to orbit various moons that are in the path of our main ship, in advance of the actual launch. That way, the ship could stop at these various "Satelites" to re-fuel, re-power, and re-stock.

Another idea is that we launched these satelites before we even planned our main ship, however rather then storing things, it would have some sort of renewable resource. Like, for example, a large, self-harvesting farm (or a bunch of plants that make food and left to grow for awile in a large area), a power generator of some sort, etc. Though that would probobly be impossible. The power generator does seem possible. If we could come up with a way to make infinate power on a moon or planet (I.E wind power), we could just stop there and charge up!

Another idea is something I got from a discovery channel thing awile ago. Rather then using dumb ol' combustion, we could use a "Solar sail" or whatever it was called. I forget exacaly how it works, but it was something like catching neutrinos from the sun, and using them like a sailboat uses wind, but I don't remember exacaly. If you want to know more, just look it up, its sure to be somewere.

By the way im 13 so don't get all the "Science" stuff quite yet :3. I probobly defied the laws of physics several times.

[10ebbor10]

Due to RL, I'll be replying here more sporadically.

Nope, landing on the polar regions is bad. Take off uses way to much fuel there. I support we search and find an underground glacier and land there.

Why would it take more fuel there than at Olympus Mons? Just elevation?Rockets abuse the centrifugal force of the planets rotation. It can make quite a difference. My formulas are all for equatorial takeoff, and going 20-30 degrees north is enough to halve launch capacity

Um, sorry. I meant a single orbiter. Ie as single reuseable space only ship ferrying back and forth for the next x years.

I'd prefer to have some backups. That ship is going to be the Terrans' first target once the war starts. My goal, as far as my influence in the sphere of spaceshipping goes, is to make a fleet of spaceships superior to what Terra can muster. A dozen old rockets and what you made from the Space Shuttle? We have half a dozen warships, a bomber, three freighters, and a ship that can transport thousands of people from Terra to Mars in under a year, plus backups. Oh, and bases on Luna, Io, Europa, and in the asteroid belt. Take that, UN. Now surrender or you're getting a facefull of nukes, rocks, and artificial-magma-filled asteroids carved into the shape of a fist with the middle finger extended with the fingertip consisting of a small fusion warhead.The orbiter is only the first construction vessel, taking the people to Mars, we can build more there(easier if the UN doesn't watch us) or on the Moon.

Here's an idea. What if we launched several "Satelites", filled with food, power, and the like, to orbit various moons that are in the path of our main ship, in advance of the actual launch. That way, the ship could stop at these various "Satelites" to re-fuel, re-power, and re-stock.

Another idea is that we launched these satelites before we even planned our main ship, however rather then storing things, it would have some sort of renewable resource. Like, for example, a large, self-harvesting farm (or a bunch of plants that make food and left to grow for awile in a large area), a power generator of some sort, etc. Though that would probobly be impossible. The power generator does seem possible. If we could come up with a way to make infinate power on a moon or planet (I.E wind power), we could just stop there and charge up!

Another idea is something I got from a discovery channel thing awile ago. Rather then using dumb ol' combustion, we could use a "Solar sail" or whatever it was called. I forget exacaly how it works, but it was something like catching neutrinos from the sun, and using them like a sailboat uses wind, but I don't remember exacaly. If you want to know more, just look it up, its sure to be somewere.

By the way im 13 so don't get all the "Science" stuff quite yet :3. I probobly defied the laws of physics several times.

Well, while the idea is sound, you're going to meet up with the sattelites at quite differen speed. This means you either have to burn a lot of fuel to stop, or crash into them.(or miss them, of course).

The current plan on the ship provide for renewable food and water, but not for power. The nuclear powercores should last for about 30 years, so that's not a problem. The real problem is that there's a way higher chance for impacts, you need to invest more fuel(or go even slower by using the Planetary transport network). Also you need to have a better rad shield, as radiation tends to build up over the course of 15 years.

Using wind power on moons is rather impossible, as they need an athmosphere to function, and most moons don't have those.

The solar sail is an estabilished engine drive, and I believe has been tested in a small scale. It uses a gigantic sail to catch and use the light of the sun.(Neutrinos just fly through everything). There's also an electromagnetical variant that uses the solar wind.

[WaffleEggnog]

-snip-

I know most moons don't, Mars has an atmosphere, and it also has air, though its too thin for us to breath. The thing about the solar sail, yeah I screwed up there, I am aware neutrinos pass through everything, but I for some reason remembered the old Stephen Hawkings discovery channel thing to be something like that, though they can still be used.

With the thing I watched, it was something about traveling through space a massive ship, with a solar sail attached to the front, and a thing that produced artificial solar wind behind the the sail.

[misko27]

Wah, wah, wah. Science nerds want funding? Then they better stop whining about where we should go, and more about how we're going to get there, and what to do once we're there.

Bueracrats getting angry.

[10ebbor10]

Wah, wah, wah. Science nerds want funding? Then they better stop whining about where we should go, and more about how we're going to get there, and what to do once we're there.

Bueracrats getting angry.

There's a plan ready, mostly. It even includes some complicated numbers.

-snip-

I know most moons don't, Mars has an atmosphere, and it also has air, though its too thin for us to breath. The thing about the solar sail, yeah I screwed up there, I am aware neutrinos pass through everything, but I for some reason remembered the old Stephen Hawkings discovery channel thing to be something like that, though they can still be used.

With the thing I watched, it was something about traveling through space a massive ship, with a solar sail attached to the front, and a thing that produced artificial solar wind behind the the sail.

Then again, wind mills don't operate well in thin air conditions, and might suffer from the cold.

Ion engine, seems like an ion engine.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Wah, wah, wah. Science nerds want funding? Then they better stop whining about where we should go, and more about how we're going to get there, and what to do once we're there.

Bueracrats getting angry.

You don't have the slightest bit of power until we actually get past the "drone on in a forum" phase of our plan.

10ebbor10: Ah, I see. Is OM on the equator? If so...how about a spaceport there, and the main base near the ice (and, therefore, water)?

[misko27]

You don't have the slightest bit of power until we actually get past the "drone on in a forum" phase of our plan.

Oh woah, total challange to my authority there. I should inform you That my supporters make up a large section of the program, and a civil war would unnecessarily derail the project. Further more, my words are spoken with DZA behind them. He  has entrusted me with some serious power, more then the average person would entrust to the "insanity party" candidate, anyway. So watch it.

So, someone explainthis to me, why would landing on the equater make lift-offs more difficult. I presume something to do with planatery spin.

[WaffleEggnog]

You don't have the slightest bit of power until we actually get past the "drone on in a forum" phase of our plan.

Oh woah, total challange to my authority there. I should inform you That my supporters make up a large section of the program, and a civil war would unnecessarily derail the project. Further more, my words are spoken with DZA behind them. He  has entrusted me with some serious power, more then the average person would entrust to the "insanity party" candidate, anyway. So watch it.

So, someone explainthis to me, why would landing on the equater make lift-offs more difficult. I presume something to do with planatery spin.

Consult the all-mighty Wikipedia

[10ebbor10]

Wah, wah, wah. Science nerds want funding? Then they better stop whining about where we should go, and more about how we're going to get there, and what to do once we're there.

Bueracrats getting angry.

You don't have the slightest bit of power until we actually get past the "drone on in a forum" phase of our plan.

10ebbor10: Ah, I see. Is OM on the equator? If so...how about a spaceport there, and the main base near the ice (and, therefore, water)?

Olympus Mons is quite near, but it's hight makes landing harder. There should be underground glaciers all over the place.

So, someone explainthis to me, why would landing on the equater make lift-offs more difficult. I presume something to do with planatery spin.

Landing on the equator makes lift off easier, because the centrifugal force from the planets rotation provides extra power.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Underground glaciers? You mean, like frozen aquifers?
I guess that could work...I'd still feel better in a more iced, less prominent location.

[10ebbor10]

Underground glaciers? You mean, like frozen aquifers?
I guess that could work...I'd still feel better in a more iced, less prominent location.

I mean like a normal glacier that got covered by Martian dust storm over a few thousand years. There are quite a lot of them.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Hm, I didn't know that.