Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Owlbread]

Would you call a murderer who relives the murder constantly "shell shocked"? Also, not everyone back then who was "shell shocked" lost connection to reality. I read a story once from a soldier who talked about how he just started shaking for no reason and feeling very, very helpless. He wasn't losing touch with reality.

[SealyStar]

I heard a discussion on radio years and years ago. It was about how PSTD has become less and less life-changingly significant over time. I don't remember all of the specifics, but for instance on of the things it used to be called was Shell Shock, which conveys without extra medicalspeak that "This person is fucked up." Tumblr-ization of PTSD is just the next step.

Just reminds me of Carlin's wise words

There's a condition in combat. Most people know about it. It's when a fighting person's nervous system has been stressed to it's absolute peak and maximum. Can't take anymore input. The nervous system has either (click) snapped or is about to snap.

In the first world war, that condition was called shell shock. Simple, honest, direct language. Two syllables, shell shock. Almost sounds like the guns themselves.

That was seventy years ago. Then a whole generation went by and the second world war came along and very same combat condition was called battle fatigue. Four syllables now. Takes a little longer to say. Doesn't seem to hurt as much. Fatigue is a nicer word than shock. Shell shock! Battle fatigue.

Then we had the war in Korea, 1950. Madison avenue was riding high by that time, and the very same combat condition was called operational exhaustion. Hey, we're up to eight syllables now! And the humanity has been squeezed completely out of the phrase. It's totally sterile now. Operational exhaustion. Sounds like something that might happen to your car.

Then of course, came the war in Viet Nam, which has only been over for about sixteen or seventeen years, and thanks to the lies and deceits surrounding that war, I guess it's no surprise that the very same condition was called post-traumatic stress disorder. Still eight syllables, but we've added a hyphen! And the pain is completely buried under jargon. Post-traumatic stress disorder.

I'll bet you if we'd of still been calling it shell shock, some of those Viet Nam veterans might have gotten the attention they needed at the time. I'll betcha. I'll betcha.

Knowing the number of quotes wrongly attributed to Carlin, I do believe you may have been duped, unless you can find some particular source

[Owlbread]

I can find it for you SealyStar, I heard him on youtube talking about it.

Here.

[Neonivek]

Would you call a murderer who relives the murder constantly "shell shocked"? Also, not everyone back then who was "shell shocked" lost connection to reality. I read a story once from a soldier who talked about how he just started shaking for no reason and feeling very, very helpless. He wasn't losing touch with reality.

So he was fearful and helpless in a situation that didn't call for it? Hmmm yes... very grounded in reality

Mind you I am intentionally stretching definitions in a playful manner.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I didn't agree with Carlin on that, I'm not sure if "shell shocked" is the right way to describe how people who are traumatised through non-military situations. I just say trauma/traumatised, PTSD if I'm trying to be medical but that's rare. I find that the word "trauma" has all the connotations you really need.

I also disagree with Carlin. Before it was recognized as PTSD, there was almost no treatment of it whatsoever. There was a little bit of recognition after WWII and in Korea, but back in WWI you could get sent to prison or executed for "cowardice". PTSD is appropriate because it carries medical validity, rather than dismissing it as personal weakness.

[Owlbread]

So he was fearful and helpless in a situation that didn't call for it? Hmmm yes... very grounded in reality

I don't know if you'd call that "losing touch with reality" though. It's not like he was off in a far-away place in his head, he was aware of where he was and wanted to stop shaking, but he couldn't.

I read something from a train driver yesterday on a forum talking about his experience of trauma after hitting two kids who were playing on the tracks. Same kind of reaction.

Mind you I am intentionally stretching definitions in a playful manner.

Oh right, I see. That's fine then.

I also disagree with Carlin. Before it was recognized as PTSD, there was almost no treatment of it whatsoever. There was a little bit of recognition after WWII and in Korea, but back in WWI you could get sent to prison or executed for "cowardice". PTSD is appropriate because it carries medical validity, rather than dismissing it as personal weakness.

I would prefer to use PTSD when talking about/with people who have a formal diagnosis of the condition. I would use "trauma"/"traumatised" otherwise.

[Neonivek]

I don't know if you'd call that "losing touch with reality" though. It's not like he was off in a far-away place in his head, he was aware of where he was and wanted to stop shaking, but he couldn't.

I read something from a train driver yesterday on a forum talking about his experience of trauma after hitting two kids who were playing on the tracks. Same kind of reaction.

I am actually not sure thinking about it. It is the exact same thing as most "Shell shocked" people, but it is not to the same extent that they lose themselves.

Then again if I accept that then I have to accept that the people who get flash backs do not "lose track of reality" but rather they fall into a semiconscious state.

Ohh the mind. I'd TOTALLY become a psychologist if I wasn't so afraid of dissecting in biology.

[Owlbread]

Even then calling it a "semiconscious state" is a bit off. It can be far weaker than that or worse depending on circumstances; we are, after all, talking about flashbacks here, they can be very varied.

[Neonivek]

Even then calling it a "semiconscious state" is a bit off. It can be far weaker than that or worse depending on circumstances.

I was referring to the ones who go into flashbacks and start acting it out.

[Owlbread]

Now you see, you have a particular idea there of what a "shell shocked person" is like which doesn't really fit a medical definition. You've assumed that people who relive an event/experience a flashback will act it out, but that isn't necessarily the case. They can do, but it's in weird ways sometimes.

[Neonivek]

Now you see, you have a particular idea there of what a shell shocked person is like rather than a medical definition. You've assumed that people who relive an event/experience a flashback will act it out, but that isn't necessarily the case.

No, that isn't what I mean.

I am wondering if the lighter cases of Shell Shock are directly linked to the heavier cases but they only differ by simple severity.

[Owlbread]

The whole idea of "shell shock" is just something people created when they tried to understand trauma and clinical PTSD on a large scale after the First World War.

[Neonivek]

The whole idea of "shell shock" is just something people created when they tried to understand trauma and clinical PTSD on a large scale after the First World War.

I know.

It was also one of the turning points of psychotherapy as this was one of the first times we had to experience, as a nation, mass psychosis... and be able to do something too.

[Shakerag]

-snip-

Vector:  The Baskin-Robbins of trauma.

If you hate me, that's fine, but treat me with respect while you're at it.

Vector my dear, that was me being lighthearted and respectful.  I did not intend to offend.

Knowing the number of quotes wrongly attributed to Carlin, I do believe you may have been duped, unless you can find some particular source

I can guarantee that Carlin did that routine, as I've heard him perform it.  EDIT:  Ninja'd.  Bother.

I also disagree with Carlin. Before it was recognized as PTSD, there was almost no treatment of it whatsoever. There was a little bit of recognition after WWII and in Korea, but back in WWI you could get sent to prison or executed for "cowardice". PTSD is appropriate because it carries medical validity, rather than dismissing it as personal weakness.

I agree that it is something that should be recognized (and certainly is very different from "cowardice") and not punished, but I'm still not sold on it being a "disorder".  The definition of "trauma" indicates "an experience that produces psychological injury or pain" and "a powerful shock that may have long-lasting effects".  So one who experiences a traumatic event ... would very much be expected to be experiencing what everyone is labeling as "PTSD".  Hence why I'm looking at the situation with a thought of "well, yeah, what did you expect to happen after someone has a traumatic experience?" rather than "oh, that behavior is indicitive of a disorder".

If I cut my finger with a knife, I don't think that blood coming from the wound is a disorder.  Blood tends to come out of knife wounds in a rather expected manner.

[Neonivek]

It is a disorder if the blood doesn't stop coming from the wound or if the wound festers.

Well that AND if you cut your finger with a knife, your body is trying to correct the disorder by bleeding.