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[Jim Groovester]

PFP
Jim: Welp, misused a slang term. The point being that you've been hammering on Mr.D right until he gets lynched.

Then I fail to see what you accuse me of, because there's no formalized tactic for what you're describing.

But better call it bussing, because bussing is scummy and you can't lynch me without calling me scummy.

I can't use a quote right now, but what was[\i] so wrong with Mr.D's lynch? What was so wrong that I was suddenly more scummy than someone who has done nothing but fret about making an OMGUS valid?

I dunno, you tell me. You're the one who swapped your vote from him to me.

My vote's never been on Mr.Dwarfinton during Day 2. Or Day 1 for that matter.

But I don't buy it.

Suit yourself.

But it's the truth.

Really? How does our "identifying teams" improve the chances for crossfire? How would we ever "identify teams" anyway? Didn't you say it was a lost cause to find out which flavour of scum a scummy person was?

Identify scummy people -> scum teams take note -> scum teams kill other scummy people.

The point isn't to identify scum teams for certain, but find scummy people to lynch and for other scummy people to shoot. Of course, identifying scummy people for crossfire doesn't help if they decided to shoot town anyway, but it's the best we can do short of killing the Exterminator right now, which I find extraordinarily unlikely.

You are voting BMC (and I agree he's scummy): do you think he's scum of a particular flavour? Who do you suspect of being the Ext at the moment? What is your read of Toony and Toaster?

Dopp is my guess.

I don't currently suspect any particular player of being the Exterminator.

ToonyMan is standing on the sidelines and doing nothing, which is extremely passive and makes me suspicious. My read on Toaster is neutral.

[Urist Imiknorris]

The point isn't to identify scum teams for certain, but find scummy people to lynch and for other scummy people to shoot. Of course, identifying scummy people for crossfire doesn't help if they decided to shoot town anyway, but it's the best we can do short of killing the Exterminator right now, which I find extraordinarily unlikely.

Scummies identified.

Spoiler: Reads/Notable activity (click to show/hide)

Toaster: Poor read.
Dariush: Forgot about number of scum - town not paying attention or dopp forgetting that team size isn't priveleged information? Not sure.
Me: Towniest town to ever town a town (duh).
Jim: Suspicious - lack of normal SRS BSNS attitude, attempts to focus lynches away from Mr. D (breaks tie by voting ZU, asks what's wrong with the inevitable Mr. D lynch while not supporting it himself), recent RIA.
Bookthras: Fairly town - looking for the right person, at least.
Mr. D: Scummy, new.
Hapah: Not very active, little to no hunting.
ToonyMan: Not very active, has been observed by Bookthras as fitting his scum meta.
BMC: Scummy, bad at Mafia.

Main suspects:
Ext: ToonyMan
Dopps: Jim*, Mr. D*
Town: Self, Bookthras

Lesser suspects:
Dopp: Dariush
Unknown non-town: BMC

No suspicions: Toaster, Hapah

*Alternatively, Mr. D is the ext and Jim an operative (hence the attempted lynch-shifting), but I doubt it. Jim's acknowledgement of Mr. D's nigh-inevitable lynch combined with his attacks on those voting Mr. D is more indicative of Mr. D being valuable, yet still expendable, to Jim. Mr. D's warden claim supplies reason for such a view - a roleblock is handy to dopps, but no LyLo breaker.

ToonyMan: Likely unaligned with Jim and Mr. D, due to the Mr. D tunnelling D2. Still scummy due to extreme passiveness. Most likely exterminator.


Jim: Reductio ad absurdum does not constiture a valid defense.

As for why I wanted your opinion on Book's unvoting you, your confusion as to his motive gave away the fact that you weren't thinking from a town perspective. I wanted to give scum!you the chance to put his foot in his mouth, and you did.

And regarding herculean scumhunting skills, my strategy is to look for individual tells plus a lack of associative tells. (Hopefully I'm correct, or at least enough so for scums to get dead)

Toony: Is Mr. D the only scum, or do you have an actual reason for sitting around with your thumb up your ass? As for the voting thing, I'm not asking Hapah to vote. I'm asking him to hunt. Do you understand the difference between those two?

[Hapah]

UI: RL has been a cruel mistress lately.

I did a quick readthrough of the recent posts between Jim and Book, and Jim's train impersonation nearly made me drown. Why are you trying to kill me, Jim?

I'll dig through it all and make a post in a bit.

PPE: Jesus guys, I step away for five minutes before I post and there a TWO new posts?

[Jim Groovester]

As for why I wanted your opinion on Book's unvoting you, your confusion as to his motive gave away the fact that you weren't thinking from a town perspective. I wanted to give scum!you the chance to put his foot in his mouth, and you did.

I wasn't confused about his motive, I didn't want to say anything because I wanted to know why you cared first.

It was a game of mafia chicken and I wanted you to blink first.

Unknown non-town: BMC

What? No way.

I demand you elaborate. He's obvscum to me and I demand to know why you don't think the same.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Unknown non-town: BMC

What? No way.

I demand you elaborate. He's obvscum to me and I demand to know why you don't think the same.

Because he sucks at Mafia. Taking that into account bumped him down a couple places.

[Toaster]

Mr. D:

Nothing I say will change Dariush's mind because he is stubborn and believes I am scum. Toaster won't change because he believes Im not hunting scum. The one thing I can do to change the minds of the others is to repeatedly say I'm not scum and explain my reasoning behind the 'suspicious' things I have done. That appears to not be working and my last option is to role claim. I don't want to do this since it might paint a target on my back but if I don't I'll be lynched and you'll end up lynching me instead of scum.

...

Im currently suspicious of BMC since it appears he has not been posting a lot and he jumped on my bandwagon with a flimsy reason. Do with my opinions what you will.

You aren't hunting scum.  You're stating your opinions on the situation, but you are neither backing them up with evidence or reason nor following up with aggressive questioning.  You need the former to turn your opinions into usable analysis, and the latter to either cement your suspicions or drive them away.


BMC:

@Jim: I was saying things that hadn't been said. If you look at D1, he's scummier than a fucking fish tank. He jumped off his vote on Dariush applied the tiniest amount of pressure, thinking that'd be better to try and hide under the radar. Unfortunately, everyone else saw this as scummy and began to ask questions about it. He then answered one of those questions, and then flat out told everyone that he wasn't going to scum hunt. After ZU didn't want to vote for an extend becuase he saw that Mr.D is obviously scum, he got dog-piled while Mr.D tried to defend himself from Dariush, claim this was all rage votes and Dariush was being too serious. The day ended with ZU getting lynched for seeing the truth and Mr.D starting a petty OMGUS war with Dar and then giving up today.

...

On D2 it's obvious that Mr.D is still trying to make Dar look like scum by proving that the vote yesterday was a rage vote, except that doesn't make fuck all for sense and he's just actively lurking while getting in jabs at Dariush. As much of an prick as Dar is (I mean that from the very bottom of my heart), he's got a valid reason, namely a bandwagon and then  shrugging off of a pathetic vote. As D2 progresses, Mr.D gives up the ghost in trying to play and it looks like we have the scum.

Why couldn't you have said all this at first?  It seems you pull out more reasons to vote him every time you are questioned on the vote.  Your view should be out there in the open without it having to be coaxed out.

Further, why are you voting Jim here instead of Mr. D?  Your entire case on Jim rests on Mr. D being scum, so you should be voting Mr. D over Jim to validate your Jim case.  What makes Jim a better vote target than Mr. D?  I think if anyone is bussing/not bussing here, it's you on Mr. D.


Jim:  What makes Mr. D clueless town rather than clueless scum?  I think the post I quoted above has a faint whiff of coaching about it.


Book:  I don't have a strong inclination either way, really.  If I'm right about BMC and Mr. D, that would indicate that Mr. D is probably a dopp (since I think it's an awfully small game for an exty op.)  Toony is being uncharacteristically quiet, and I'm not sure what to say with that.  I've been scum with Toony before, and he's loud and in the thick of it, especially when he thinks he's got an advantage.  If anything, he might be a survivor (or exty), but this play is really unlike him.

Jim I rather think isn't a dopp, because I buy his story about being protected for several reasons.  One, he's a much more tempting kill target than Dustylou, being an established strong player.  Two, his scum style is for patient careful play and presenting a strong townlike day game- not jumping into gambits like that.  His post was forty minutes after day start; an awfully short time for concocting such a plan.  Further, a reporter watching him or following whomever killed Dustylou would have blown the story wide open.  It'd be a very risky play for such a questionable gain.  As far as if he's an exterminator, it's hard to say.  He's hard to read anyway and hasn't dropped any tells of note.

Otherwise, I don't have any real leads on who could be the exterminator.  It could easily be one of the quiet people hanging out in the back like Toony or Hapah.


Toony:  You've posted no real content today.  Who is your #2 pick and why?  Why are you being so quiet?


Hapah:  That's some nice active lurking you've done today.  You spent the first part of the day confirming flavor, and then haven't followed up.  Who is scum and why?  If you were sure enough to vote Jim at end of D1, why not open D2 with doing so?

[blackmagechill]

Very bad.

Toony: What is your deal? Have your opinions been solidified or changed by any of the arguments for Mr.D's lynch?

Jim:

Then I fail to see what you accuse me of, because there's no formalized tactic for what you're describing.

But better call it bussing, because bussing is scummy and you can't lynch me without calling me scummy.

It's bussing right up until you take a turn left and aim your vote at me. You're not there yet though, we'll need the other dopp and your enchanting to get me to hang.

I dunno, you tell me. You're the one who swapped your vote from him to me.

I'm lynching the smarter scum. I was referring to where you asked UI the same question before voting him.

My vote's never been on Mr.Dwarfinton during Day 2. Or Day 1 for that matter.

Oh, I'm sorry, D1 ended with you jumping on ZU's bandwagon late because you were busy.

The recurring theme is every count that Mr.D starts to look like he's getting lynched, you start to vote. I don't know if your voting twice or not, or who your third is, but it's pretty damn clear that you've been protecting Mr.D, and an experienced player has been talking to him through PMs or a scumchat. I'd also like to point out that, even IF Mr.D wasn't scum, you jumped on that vote after he did, despite expression your suspicions three posts before without voting.

 So, why, then, are you content to pressure vote UI when he already has a vote, but, I, someone who was considered to be vote padding, not worth the vote. Was it because you didn't feel that it was worth it or was it because UI already had a vote, and it'd be easy to get some votes together to get him?

Toaster:
Everyone else was already using those reasons, so I felt like I should try to bring something to the table. Admittedly, it wasn't much, but there is a mounting wall of evidence on him, between the coaching and Jim diving on others to save his ass.

As for my vote on Jim, if you take away the coach, the protégé will be clueless. You've seen his latest posts, they reek of being coached. Somebody's helping him, and I doubt it's a good samaritan.

And I'm not bussing Mr.D, otherwise I'd be voting him. That's the very strict definition of bussing, throwing someone under the bus until lynch to look town. If he stays alive and is unable to attempt a mislynch because he refuses to scum hunt, I'll rest easily.

[Urist Imiknorris]

So, why, then, are you content to pressure vote UI when he already has a vote, but, I, someone who was considered to be vote padding, not worth the vote. Was it because you didn't feel that it was worth it or was it because UI already had a vote, and it'd be easy to get some votes together to get him?

I already had a vote?

[blackmagechill]

So, why, then, are you content to pressure vote UI when he already has a vote, but, I, someone who was considered to be vote padding, not worth the vote. Was it because you didn't feel that it was worth it or was it because UI already had a vote, and it'd be easy to get some votes together to get him?

I already had a vote?

On Page 10, Toaster is shown voting you in the  count. Jim voted you while asking what was wrong with Mr.D's lynch, and then after his scum- protégé posted he switched to me, missing the last count.

[Toaster]

BMC:

Toaster:
Everyone else was already using those reasons, so I felt like I should try to bring something to the table. Admittedly, it wasn't much, but there is a mounting wall of evidence on him, between the coaching and Jim diving on others to save his ass.

That's no reason to not say them in the first place.  I'm starting to think you didn't even have them in the first place.

As for my vote on Jim, if you take away the coach, the protégé will be clueless. You've seen his latest posts, they reek of being coached. Somebody's helping him, and I doubt it's a good samaritan.

This doesn't follow.  It ignores the point that your entire Jim case depends on Mr. D being scum and the fact that if they're both dopps, there's another team mate there to help him.

It also really irks me when I get my own reasons parroted back at me.  You hadn't mentioned coaching until I said it.

So, why, then, are you content to pressure vote UI when he already has a vote, but, I, someone who was considered to be vote padding, not worth the vote. Was it because you didn't feel that it was worth it or was it because UI already had a vote, and it'd be easy to get some votes together to get him?

I don't get what you're saying here.

So, why, then, are you content to pressure vote UI when he already has a vote, but, I, someone who was considered to be vote padding, not worth the vote. Was it because you didn't feel that it was worth it or was it because UI already had a vote, and it'd be easy to get some votes together to get him?

I already had a vote?

On Page 10, Toaster is shown voting you in the  count. Jim voted you while asking what was wrong with Mr.D's lynch, and then after his scum- protégé posted he switched to me, missing the last count.

Please link this.  I've been back through all of D2 and only see myself voting Mr. D, which I've been doing since day start.  Perhaps you're looking at this post where UI is voting me, not the other way around?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Yeah, I was doing the voting there.

[blackmagechill]

@UI: That means we have officially entered sleepless moron territory. I'm not going to fuck myself up any more than I have to, so I'll answer about it tomorrow.

[Jim Groovester]

Because he sucks at Mafia. Taking that into account bumped him down a couple places.

That's it? His bandwagoning, poor reasons, borrowing others' questions, continual addition of reasons to his votes, many borrowed straight from other players, making strongly worded accusations that make no sense, and he gets to walk away from your scrutiny because he's bad?

Even if you don't think he's scum, there's lots of stuff to look at and you're not curious about any of it?

That's kind of hard to believe.

Jim:  What makes Mr. D clueless town rather than clueless scum?  I think the post I quoted above has a faint whiff of coaching about it.

I see what you mean, but a scum team isn't necessarily the only source of coaching. I'm going to avoid saying them in case Mr.Dwarfinton catches a clue and lists them down.

He's obviously struggling but I can't definitively say what his alignment is based on it. Yes, he's made lots of mistakes, but the same thing happens to every other player who decides he wants to join the big leagues before going through a Beginner's Mafia. I will say that as soon as I recommended he joined a Beginner's Mafia, he signed up for the current one immediately afterword. It suggests that he's operating independently, as I hope that any scum team he would be on would have recommended it to him sooner than that.

It's not definitive evidence, however, and I'll continue to watch him.

Meanwhile, BMC is scum.

It's bussing right up until you take a turn left and aim your vote at me. You're not there yet though, we'll need the other dopp and your enchanting to get me to hang.

That's not bussing then.

It's not really anything. It's drawing loads of attention to my scumbuddy, only to abandon the case at the last minute, which isn't really much of a strategy at all, because it doesn't make any sense.

I dunno, you tell me. You're the one who swapped your vote from him to me.

I'm lynching the smarter scum. I was referring to where you asked UI the same question before voting him.

As I have repeated ad nauseam to Brickthras over there (seriously I'm nauseous), I was questioning the need for an extension since Mr.Dwarfinton was in the lead for votes.

If there's a clear majority on someone and the votes don't look like they're going to change, then there's no reason for an extension. It's a waste of time at that point.

The recurring theme is every count that Mr.D starts to look like he's getting lynched, you start to vote. I don't know if your voting twice or not, or who your third is, but it's pretty damn clear that you've been protecting Mr.D, and an experienced player has been talking to him through PMs or a scumchat. I'd also like to point out that, even IF Mr.D wasn't scum, you jumped on that vote after he did, despite expression your suspicions three posts before without voting.

He voted while I was typing the post to vote you. That happens sometimes. The timestamps differ by 45 minutes, which is well within the realm of possibility given how long I know I spend typing up each post.

If it makes you feel better, if I were a little quicker on the trigger I would've been first to vote you and you could have an additional reason to vote for Mr.Dwarfinton.

As for your accusation that I'm coaching him, the extent of my coaching is the few helpful posts I've given him in the thread. I can't be coaching him in scum chat since I'm obviously not scum (because you are).

So, why, then, are you content to pressure vote UI when he already has a vote, but, I, someone who was considered to be vote padding, not worth the vote. Was it because you didn't feel that it was worth it or was it because UI already had a vote, and it'd be easy to get some votes together to get him?

I was pressuring Urist Imiknorris at the time. You can't just abandon a pressure vote. You have to see it through.

Afterwards I decided to vote for you with the reasons I outlined as well as ignoring my questions. And I know you ignored them, because you're talking about the same post I wanted a response to that you never bothered with.

[Hapah]

I've got to get up for work in fivefour hours, but I saw a reread and analysis through just so I could at least get a handle on what's going on. I really do apologize, but life has been nuts. If I would've known, I wouldn't have signed up and been dead weight. I think I finally caught the train, though.

BMC. It's hard for me to find something to say that hasn't already been said, but the list of reasons I read today isn't a short one. I could repeat everyone else's reasons, but that's both pot/kettle and not particularly useful either. I can list them tomorrow if need be, but this is the best I can do tonight.

Book: You've been very one-note all of D2 advocating a Exterminator lynch. Specifically, a Jim!Exty (Exty!Jim?) lynch. You barely so much as glance at anyone else all day (this being the closest thing I found.). There's having suspicions, and then there's being completely certain, and you look much more like the latter than the former. What gives? Do you have other suspicions?

Jim, UI: Jim's voting BMC and giving MrD slack for being new, UI's setup is somewhat different (lynch MrD as either Dopp or Ext, BMC is "Unknown not town" {The heck is this? Aren't all the non-town roles hostile? I don't recall seeing a neutral third party}). They've each made plenty of errors, what makes each of you give one some slack and want to string the other up?

[Jim Groovester]

Jim, UI: Jim's voting BMC and giving MrD slack for being new, UI's setup is somewhat different (lynch MrD as either Dopp or Ext, BMC is "Unknown not town" {The heck is this? Aren't all the non-town roles hostile? I don't recall seeing a neutral third party}). They've each made plenty of errors, what makes each of you give one some slack and want to string the other up?

Mr.Dwarfinton is making a bunch classic noob mistakes. E.G., giving up completely is something a lot of new players do because they're frustrated. That he's committing these mistakes doesn't tell me a lot about him. BMC, on the other hand, is trying to make lynches happen and is trying to be convincing about it, but he's either incapable of hiding his true motives well enough or that's the way he comes across. BMC is legitimately bad at mafia, I'll admit, but that doesn't significantly change my read on him.

(To answer your parenthetical, there are Survivors, Spore Spreaders, Hiveminds, and Xenozoologists, all of varying hostility towards the town. Survivors are fairly neutral, Spore Spreaders are slightly hostile but ultimately have the same win condition as the town, Hiveminds are essentially classic Cult Leaders, and Xenozoologists are sort of like toned down Exterminators.)