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[Neonivek]

hmm... strange that it's not yet funded. Is it that not that many people are interested in ADOM anymore or that it's not anything really new or that it's an indiegogo and not kickstarter?

Given the stretch goals... I wouldn't be surprised if some Diehard ADOM fans stayed away.

Stretch Goals are supposed to feel like something extra that the game wouldn't otherwise have. When you say "One extra quest for this stretch goal" you don't paint it that way because you never know how many quests are supposed to go into a full game.

I'd honestly would put these stretch goals on "Kickstarter gone wrong". It is just brimming with "How do you know it will be that way?" constantly.

--

Also you can fund a Roguelike game on kickstarter and expect a lot of money... but for that you really have to offer something unique and wonderful (So far the only fully animated Roguelike for example was the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Series) that takes advantage of the simple aspects of the design to give something better.

This has no indication of giving anything better.

[eeviac]

Kickstarter logic is so backwards sometimes: if the public gives $65k, they'll put the game on Steam. 'if you pay us, we'll let other people pay us too'. How about you create a complete and quality product and then ask for people's money? I never liked ADOM much, but if they really shined it up and put it on Steam with global leaderboards, integrated IRC, and whatever, I would pay for it. I imagine many others would too. It'd be a good way - a logical way - to keep ADOM II development funded.

What they're doing now just doesn't jive with me.

[Xeron]

It wouldn't even be worth it when you get the same game with little content added.Even if it had those features ,it wouldn't be woth 20k.

[szopin]

It wouldn't even be worth it when you get the same game with little content added.Even if it had those features ,it wouldn't be woth 20k.

Seems it is worth a bit more than 20 to some. Try to create a game that will be played in 10 years time and then criticize. Your point about Toadie... Game is opensource and if he wouldn't, someone else would update it. And this might be a good idea, so many people still considering 0.7 as the true Crawl. Never heard of diehard ADOM fans playing 0.9.x... Maybe closed source isn't that bad when the creator actually listens/respects constructive criticism from players

[Neonivek]

It wouldn't even be worth it when you get the same game with little content added.Even if it had those features ,it wouldn't be woth 20k.

Seems it is worth a bit more than 20 to some. Try to create a game that will be played in 10 years time and then criticize. Your point about Toadie... Game is opensource and if he wouldn't, someone else would update it. And this might be a good idea, so many people still considering 0.7 as the true Crawl. Never heard of diehard ADOM fans playing 0.9.x... Maybe closed source isn't that bad when the creator actually listens/respects constructive criticism from players

On the contrary people have already done that to ADOM in much less then 20 years with entirely new planes of existance to explore.

[getter77]

The money makes sense considering there is a team to be situated and money/art/coding isn't a "free" thing in a vacuum most of the time as at the very least there is an implied cost for time and an unspoken for "Well, you already have all the competent hardware and dev software licenses right?"---in ADOM's heyday it was a student project when Biskup literally had nothing else aside from it and school to contend with in an era very different from nowadays both in terms of the internet and all else.  Fast forward a good number of years and he's got a company to manage, a marriage/house situated, and suddenly all the student time/energy just isn't there anymore on top of the original game being a nightmarish series of old school C hacks barely held together.

You see much of this in the game dev community..."old timers" still trying to make it work, however they can, even as their numbers dwindle due to the horrific burn out rate in the mainstream industry at large.  The way I see it Toady and Biskup have their own respective situations, and as such comparisons between their respective methods just don't pan out ultimately as each is very much a product of different times, locales, life experiences, etc.

That said, him having to use IndieGoGo instead of Kickstarter definitely did not help matters as IGG just doesn't have the visibility and audience as KS.

[szopin]

It wouldn't even be worth it when you get the same game with little content added.Even if it had those features ,it wouldn't be woth 20k.

Seems it is worth a bit more than 20 to some. Try to create a game that will be played in 10 years time and then criticize. Your point about Toadie... Game is opensource and if he wouldn't, someone else would update it. And this might be a good idea, so many people still considering 0.7 as the true Crawl. Never heard of diehard ADOM fans playing 0.9.x... Maybe closed source isn't that bad when the creator actually listens/respects constructive criticism from players

On the contrary people have already done that to ADOM in much less then 20 years with entirely new planes of existance to explore.

On the contrary... have you really been far even as decided  to...?

People have done that to ADOM... done what exactly? In much less then 20 years... sure as the game hasn't been around for 20 years, definitely. How about they did THAT to Crawl in much less than a century. Heard they have vehicles in Cataclysm now, maybe they have 'planes of existance' for you to fly when high... to explore.

And don't get me wrong, mentioned opensource games' problems as this is one of the accusations thrown all the time against Biskup. Funny, as (at least from my exp) more people play TOME 2.3.x than the newest constantly updated 4.9999.... All zillions of bands created still can count on only a fragment of the number that plays vanilla. Open source is cool, takes a personality to make an epic game though.

[Xeron]

Epic game ?Please there's been better roguelikes than ADOM ,developed far much faster ,without any bugs more content and open source.If you say ADOM is a good roguelike i say nay.

[szopin]

Epic game ?Please there's been better roguelikes than ADOM ,developed far much faster ,without any bugs more content and open source.If you say ADOM is a good roguelike i say nay.

Wouldn't discuss with you if you just said you prefer different... you know, taste. Hard to argue with that. But calling this game shit not worth your money, check the indiegogo page, some disagree. And if you think you throw actual argument that needs rebuking:

...without any bugs...

Words of wisdom.

[Xeron]

Alright i made a small mistake there, i meant to type less bugs.What pisses me off is that this guy comes and asks for such a hefty sum when he left everyone ,and wouldn't even release the source ,even if it was close sourced to somebody.There are RL devs out there that deserve those money.

[Neonivek]

Actually I find that worrying about simantics in terms of "No games are bad because someone out there likes it" actually hurts the conversation more then the requirement for people to actually filter information as the viewpoint of the person who written it.

[szopin]

Alright i made a small mistake there, i meant to type less bugs.What pisses me off is that this guy comes and asks for such a hefty sum when he left everyone ,and wouldn't even release the source ,even if it was close sourced to somebody.There are RL devs out there that deserve those money.

Once again, when you get to the point that thousands of people beg you to release the source code of your creation, it should be your decision alone if you are willing to do so. If you think that there are RLs out there can gather so much sympathy/devotion to spark so many discussions after 10 years, show them to people, advertise them, play them, ignore the shit... This guy comes at least with something to prove his ability to deliver. There's been so many kickstarters with greenhornes promising tons of stuff and blank page in their portfolio. The guys that can create a decade worth of playing pleasure will cash out in the end, whether you find it shit or not

[quinnr]

Seems it is worth a bit more than 20 to some. Try to create a game that will be played in 10 years time and then criticize. Your point about Toadie... Game is opensource and if he wouldn't, someone else would update it. And this might be a good idea, so many people still considering 0.7 as the true Crawl. Never heard of diehard ADOM fans playing 0.9.x... Maybe closed source isn't that bad when the creator actually listens/respects constructive criticism from players

Now correct me if I am wrong,  but I am pretty sure DF is not open source.

[Gnoll Fortress]

Toady does ask for money he lives off the donations with no job.
Furthermore ADOM is a great game and worth a donation for the amount of hours I sunk into it I donated to df with the same logic and df is so far an inferior game to ADOM.
I'm hoping df will be able to compete with it in my books someday.

[tootboot]

My last point is .....who the fuck are the idiots that funded that shit ?

Me, I got impulsive and donated because the idea of ADOM with a tileset appealed to me and I momentarily 'forgot' how ridiculous this whole campaign is.

I came to my senses an hour or two later and asked TB to refund my pledge but he didn't reply. 

Oh well, at least it was only $25.