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I ATTAC

8 (15.4%)

I PROTECC

6 (11.5%)

Waiting on the third one

2 (3.8%)

Waiting on the third AND fourth one

1 (1.9%)

GET WELL SOON ZYGARDE

5 (9.6%)

I am a concientous objector and abstain from taking up arms

30 (57.7%)

Total Members Voted: 51

[umiman]

I would never expect a choice specs Swalot.

I don't understand how Mandibuzz is supposed to wall Sawk though. Unless you're referring to how that Sawk is locked into something that isn't stone edge.

The Relicanth on the other hand. Personally I don't think I'd ever fall for it. Every time I see a rock head or Hustle or Sheer Force capable Pokemon I kinda assume they're going to do massive deeps. I know more people like to run Relicanth as a wall but I don't see why they'd do that when there are so many better walls out there.

So if I saw someone with a weirdo team that has say... FUCKING CHOICE SPECS Swalot... I would be very on guard with the Relicanth. In this case I'd be wondering why it took recoil damage rather than anything else.

[Cthulhu]

I used to play an all baton-pass team when that was possible.

Despite being a terrible thing that was obnoxious when it worked and failed catastrophically when it didn't work, one-shotting Metagross with a 4x-resisted stored power was pretty funny.

[Heron TSG]

I would never expect a choice specs Swalot.

I don't understand how Mandibuzz is supposed to wall Sawk though. Unless you're referring to how that Sawk is locked into something that isn't stone edge.

If Sawk is locked into something other than Stone Edge, Mandibuzz can switch in on anything. If Sawk is locked into Stone Edge, it can't OHKO Mandibuzz and you can bring in the dreaded Alomomola or Musharna (two popular partners) and Sawk has to switch out. If Mandibuzz is already in and your opponent brings out a Sawk, you're probably fine unless it has banded Ice Punch or Stone Edge... neither of which were any real threat to the other popular defensive walls.

[umiman]

According to the calculator, Sawk does 56.7 - 66.9% damage with banded close combat vs Mandibuzz. Stone edge is 63.3% - 74.7%. Ice punch is worse than Close Combat and is the only skill that might result in a 3HKO instead of 2. This kinda matches my experience with fighting a banded Sawk too, which is more or less identical to fighting a banded Durant in that it really hurts.

When Mandibuzz takes more than half its HP from those moves, how can it switch in? It will die the next turn due to speed advantage. Sure, it can do work if it came in safely but basically you have to sacrifice a pokemon to do that. Then comes the point where you predict whether the enemy is going to switch and if you predict wrongly (decided to knock off the switch in, but he didn't switch), you die.

So basically, what I'm saying is when you said people were complaining that Mandibuzz walls Sawk, I'm agreeing with you in that they're morons as it doesn't work at all.

[Heron TSG]

What I was getting at is a bit more complex than what I said. When Primeape came into the metagame, basically everyone in NU dropped Sawk like a box of rocks except for the choice band set. Thus when Mandibuzz showed up, people dropped Sawk because Sawk was very very easy to counter with Mandibuzz. It was either not banded and incredibly unlikely to break Mandibuzz, or it was banded and extremely predictable. As long as you didn't switch Mandibuzz into a banded Stone Edge or Close Combat, you'd be good. Unless your opponent is thinking outside the box with something like

Sawk@Fighting Gem
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Mold Breaker
-Close Combat
-Taunt
-Ice Punch
-Stone Edge/Earthquake​

Enough punch to destroy a lot of pokemon, Taunt to murder walls. I did some math, and at the time Fighting Gem Close Combat and Earthquake could OHKO almost any hazard lead, Ice Punch for Roselia, potentially Stone Edge for coverage, and Taunt to shut down Torkoal, defensive Seismitoad, and Golurk. Taunt severely limits walls, so even if you couldn't outright kill every pokemon (like banded Sawk was known for) you could cause a ruckus for some other pokemon to clean up. (Zebstrika was one of my favorites for cleanup, or Swellow.)

I think the strategydex took a seriously wrong turn when they removed the intro paragraphs for every pokemon that gave a general idea of where the pokemon fit in the metagame. Now people just see sets, and when those sets don't work anymore a lot of people don't really understand enough about the pokemon to adapt it to what they need. Maybe it's different in OU, but in NU it's far more useful to have a paragraph about what Kricketune can possibly do than to have some random set that's only there because someone decided to write one for a pokemon used by five guys a month.

[Mageziya]

So apparently defog is a transfer only move for Latias. Smogon also refuses to offer any guidance for a Latias that isn't a defogger. So since I got my Latias from the Eon Ticket, I can't do that. I'm not quite sure what to do.

[umiman]

Latias is usually either a special attacker that's good at taking hits (especially of the special attack kind) or a really annoying piece of crap that also can attack.

Moves that you want are:

1. Trick (seriously, so annoying)
2. Draco meteor
3. Surf
4. Psychic / psyshock
5. Calm mind
6. Defog
7. Thunder wave
8. Protect / substitute
9. Ice beam / thunder bolt / energy ball
10. Shadow ball
11. Reflect / light screen
12. Heal pulse / recover / roost
13. Helping hand (great for multi battles)
14. Safeguard

For items, just get whatever you want for the situation. For example, with trick get a choice scarf so you can be extremely annoying. when going calm mind into whatever attacks get leftovers or life orb or expert belt or whatever. When going reflect / light screen get that item that extends them that I can't remember right now. When in doubt just get leftovers it works for everything except multi battles, in which case get sitrus berry or that kind of stuff.

Latias has levitate. Levitate is one of the best abilities in the game as it's immune to arguably the most powerful move in the game (earthquake) that everyone and their mother has. It's also immune to other ground-type attacks and spikes and toxic spikes and all that jazz. So cool stuff. If you're new to Pokemoning, this also means in multi battles you can pair Lati@s up with a super ground type and spam earthquakes without worrying about killing yourself.

Its stats are pretty good all things considered. It's tanky but does good damage. It's probably not going to OHKO anything that isn't weak to it without some calm mind boosts though, so kinda assume if you're going to fight something it'll take 2 to 3 hits which isn't too bad. It can absorb quite a few hits too, which is nice. Just watch out for sucker punch and u-turn. The special attack versions like bug buzz and dark pulse aren't that scary to Latias as its special defense is pretty freaking high. It can tank a few of them so if you need to risk it, go for it.

If you're making a dedicated attacker, make sure you get enough coverage to fight as many things as possible. Draco meteor is your best attack in the game and will probably do 90% damage to many, many things. A few guys will outright die to it. Just be careful as it'll kinda make you useless afterwards. It's best paired with a super annoying form of Latias such as trick + dual screens. This is because you're probably switching out after using everything anyway. Otherwise, psychic / psyshock + calm mind + surf + shadow ball is probably your best bet. Or just mix it up.

The most common kind of Latias is usually two support moves like thunder wave or trick and two attack moves like psychic and surf.

What to watch out for?

If someone like Absol gets a free switch into your Latias, you've probably lost the game. Just saying.

[Cthulhu]

Draco Meteor hits like a truck with life orb.  Even obnoxious as fuck calm mind mega slowbro has to be careful around draco meteor.

Also greninja is being suspect tested for ubers.  I guess I can see it, with the sheer variety of moves he has and the free STAB on every move, not to mention his resistances changing, there's basically no safe switch-ins, just about every pokemon in the game risks getting fucked up if he predicts well.  I don't see him having any presence at all in Ubers though.

I'm not a huge fan of actually playing him though, I think I like my mega-gallade bisharp offensive core right now.

[Reudh]

Draco Meteor hits like a truck with life orb.  Even obnoxious as fuck calm mind mega slowbro has to be careful around draco meteor.

Also greninja is being suspect tested for ubers.  I guess I can see it, with the sheer variety of moves he has and the free STAB on every move, not to mention his resistances changing, there's basically no safe switch-ins, just about every pokemon in the game risks getting fucked up if he predicts well.  I don't see him having any presence at all in Ubers though.

I'm not a huge fan of actually playing him though, I think I like my mega-gallade bisharp offensive core right now.

I've come up against a Lucario who carried Vacuum Wave before. Traditional Protean-Greninja sets have at least 1 of its moves weak to Fighting, being Ice Beam to KO Grass and Dragons. Thankfully I ran Scald over Hydro Pump and burned it.

[RekkaAtsuma]

Draco Meteor hits like a truck with life orb.  Even obnoxious as fuck calm mind mega slowbro has to be careful around draco meteor.

Also greninja is being suspect tested for ubers.  I guess I can see it, with the sheer variety of moves he has and the free STAB on every move, not to mention his resistances changing, there's basically no safe switch-ins, just about every pokemon in the game risks getting fucked up if he predicts well.  I don't see him having any presence at all in Ubers though.

I'm not a huge fan of actually playing him though, I think I like my mega-gallade bisharp offensive core right now.

I've come up against a Lucario who carried Vacuum Wave before. Traditional Protean-Greninja sets have at least 1 of its moves weak to Fighting, being Ice Beam to KO Grass and Dragons. Thankfully I ran Scald over Hydro Pump and burned it.

Isn't Vacuum Wave A special Attack? If so wouldn't burning the foe do nothing to weaken Vacuum Wave?
...Or does burn now weaken both offensive stats and no one told me?

[Reudh]

Draco Meteor hits like a truck with life orb.  Even obnoxious as fuck calm mind mega slowbro has to be careful around draco meteor.

Also greninja is being suspect tested for ubers.  I guess I can see it, with the sheer variety of moves he has and the free STAB on every move, not to mention his resistances changing, there's basically no safe switch-ins, just about every pokemon in the game risks getting fucked up if he predicts well.  I don't see him having any presence at all in Ubers though.

I'm not a huge fan of actually playing him though, I think I like my mega-gallade bisharp offensive core right now.

I've come up against a Lucario who carried Vacuum Wave before. Traditional Protean-Greninja sets have at least 1 of its moves weak to Fighting, being Ice Beam to KO Grass and Dragons. Thankfully I ran Scald over Hydro Pump and burned it.

Isn't Vacuum Wave A special Attack? If so wouldn't burning the foe do nothing to weaken Vacuum Wave?
...Or does burn now weaken both offensive stats and no one told me?

Yes, it's special, no burns, don't weaken special. I mean because burns give what amounts to 6-12% more damage dealt.

[Cthulhu]

Every time I think I'm sick of hte game it pulls me back in.  Mega Beedrill is insane which in itself is insane because it's fucking beedrill and what universe do we live in where beedrill is good.

Adaptability STAB U-Turn is like the fist of a really jacked god on steroids and protect is always fun to play with.  I'm still trying to think of a new setup to match my old trole team of Prankster Sableye, Subdisable Gengar, and Scarf Jirachi, along with Nidoking (pretty trole back then, basically a mini-greninja with universal type coverage on Earth Power, Ice Beam, Thunder, and Superpower) and Conkeldurr (who was 100% serious and not trole at all)

[umiman]

Other than the superpower Nidoking. I can't see how that's supposed to be "trole"-y at all.

[Aklyon]

This dexnav search thing is awesome!

[Tawa]

Definitely. I'm working on catching everything for the first time, because now, I can tell what I've caught and what I haven't at a glance.