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Author Topic: Strange Mood cherry-picking  (Read 5338 times)

Saiko Kila

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2012, 10:20:42 am »

Most artefacts can be re-rolled if you load a save just a moment (a day or so) before finishing. No need to wait whole five days or however long it takes for savescumming. I know that for sure because I savescum often, in younger fortresses at least.
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Sutremaine

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2012, 12:15:09 pm »

Also, I vaguely recall that once you get 20 dorfs in the fort you are able to get moods even if your dorf number drops below 20. Although at the same time, I recall a 60-70 person fort that stopped getting artifacts after about 50 or whatever were made, so maybe you do need 20 people who haven't made artifacts to keep the rare moods rolling in.
Artifacts are also limited in number by the amount of space you've dug out. Even with a steady supply of unmooded dwarves, a fortress that stops digging will eventually stop getting moods.
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Auning

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2012, 04:19:20 am »

A small update to hopefully clear up and confirm some things that I've determined after some testing. You definitely need over 20 dwarves or so for you to start getting strange moods. If you drop below that number, the moods stop. It appears making a dwarf lose a friend to tragedy (like being crushed under a bridge) does not cue up a possession, but this may require more specific testing (albeit results are doubtable.) Those in the strange mood definitely tend to make their favorite item type, if possible. Now, for my method of bootleg artifact farming.

In the case of looking for weapon artifacts:
As usual, start with all at novice or adequate in weaponsmithing, and having the starting items I listed in the first post. Dig up and process all of the ores you're going to need and process them while getting up to 20 dwarves. Out of these migrant dwarves, kill all of the ones with any crafting skills other than weaponsmithing. Just strain out the dwarves that you can make into weaponsmith only dwarves. Plain old peasants work best for this. Do this until you have 20 or more novice weaponsmithing dwarves. Any excess migrants you get, immediately send them to a room sealed off from the rest of the fort and have them atomsmashed out of sight of anyone. Ensure that you almost always have about 21 dwarves at all times, and that they are all weaponsmiths. Anymore, and it's a waste of resources. To keep your food and drink supplies up, sell the items you have your new weaponsmith dwarves (I'll get to this in a minute) create as you train them to novice. Buy booze, food, and seeds with them. Or, if you really want to, just use the forbid depot trick to get the items. Planting all of the seeds and harvesting the crops is safe enough, and you can live off of this and caravan goods alone.

When a weaponsmith makes an artifact, you can just atomsmash him for food efficiency, and quickly bring up a new peasant to take his place. Because eventually, (for example) if you get 10 artifacts made, you'll likely have 10 dwarves that can't be mooded any more and are just leeching resources. This is why I suggest having slightly over the threshold of dwarves required for strange moods. If you had 20 dwarves, and you killed a weaponsmith after he made an artifact, you would have to wait until the next wave of migrants to possibly get any moods. You would then have to go through the short process of picking out (a) usable dwarf(s), atomshashing the others, and training him/them. However, if you had 21 dwarves and you killed the 21st one, you would be at 20, and you could comfortably wait to bring in the next one while getting your mood rolls.

There is one possible horror I would like to point out. The problem is skill rusting, as was mentioned by someone earlier in the thread. I didn't know what to make of it at first, but I think I understand now. As far as I see, skill rust completely negates the fact that the dwarf has the skill at all, as far as moods are concerned. For example, a peasant with nothing but Novice Weaponsmithing (rusty) won't default onto weaponsmithing, but will instead turn to the default skill choices, such as masonry and bone-crafting. If this is incorrect, please let me know, as I have not had clear testing conditions for a clear answer. This has been cleared up to me by Kofthefens. It actually doesn't seem to affect it.

I find this is quite easy to do with minimal effort beyond the initial ground-laying. Mainly just managing their farming, filtering out the migrants as needed, dealing with merchants, and supplying for the moods. This technique will work with other types of artifacts just as well. With this, hopefully one can equip a few god-like warriors in a decent amount of time.

As an added note, Mining counts as a crafting skill. Frightening. Very frightening indeed. It seems to be treated like masonry. But it is advisable to have one dwarf to digging a bit, for the sake of artifact limit extension.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 02:07:36 pm by Auning »
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Xenos

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2012, 11:55:12 am »

-snip-

In the case of looking for weapon artifacts:
As usual, start with all at novice or adequate in weaponsmithing, and having the starting items I listed in the first post. Dig up and process all of the ores you're going to need and process them while getting up to 20 dwarves. Out of these migrant dwarves, kill all of the ones with any crafting skills other than weaponsmithing. Just strain out the dwarves that you can make into weaponsmith only dwarves. Plain old peasants work best for this. Do this until you have 20 or more novice weaponsmithing dwarves. Any excess migrants you get, immediately send them to a room sealed off from the rest of the fort and have them atomsmashed out of sight of anyone. Ensure that you almost always have about 21 dwarves at all times, and that they are all weaponsmiths. Anymore, and it's a waste of resources. To keep your food and drink supplies up, sell the items you have your new weaponsmith dwarves (I'll get to this in a minute) create as you train them to novice. Buy booze, food, and seeds with them. Or, if you really want to, just use the forbid depot trick to get the items. Planting all of the seeds and harvesting the crops is safe enough, and you can live off of this and caravan goods alone.

-snip-

What if you took this a step further and gave each smith his own private forge with a stockpile of the bars that are best for his preferred item type?  (platinum bars next to the hammer loving dwarves' forge, steel/candy next to the sword lover's forge, copper for the morningstar smith, etc.)

This would help prevent adamantine warhammers from being produced or golden/tin swords. 

If any of the smiths are found to like a piece of armor I would recommend training them in armorsmithing just to take advantage of artifact armor.
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Kofthefens

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2012, 12:31:41 pm »

There is one possible horror I would like to point out. The problem is skill rusting, as was mentioned by someone earlier in the thread. I didn't know what to make of it at first, but I think I understand now. As far as I see, skill rust completely negates the fact that the dwarf has the skill at all, as far as moods are concerned. For example, a peasant with nothing but Novice Weaponsmithing (rusty) won't default onto weaponsmithing, but will instead turn to the default skill choices, such as masonry and bone-crafting. If this is incorrect, please let me know, as I have not had clear testing conditions for a clear answer.

I have had a Novice Glassmaker (Rusty) get a glassmaking mood.
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Friendstrange

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2012, 12:37:42 pm »

This would help prevent adamantine warhammers from being produced or golden/tin swords. 
You can forbid the bars of every other metal you dont want to have in the artifact when the mood strikes. The moody dwarf will only grab unforbidden bars.


There is one possible horror I would like to point out. The problem is skill rusting, as was mentioned by someone earlier in the thread. I didn't know what to make of it at first, but I think I understand now. As far as I see, skill rust completely negates the fact that the dwarf has the skill at all, as far as moods are concerned. For example, a peasant with nothing but Novice Weaponsmithing (rusty) won't default onto weaponsmithing, but will instead turn to the default skill choices, such as masonry and bone-crafting. If this is incorrect, please let me know, as I have not had clear testing conditions for a clear answer.
I dont understand much of the rusting mechanics but I do believe you can unrust a skill if you give them enough practice. I may be wrong though it ought to work like that.
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Xenos

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2012, 01:15:11 pm »

This would help prevent adamantine warhammers from being produced or golden/tin swords. 
You can forbid the bars of every other metal you dont want to have in the artifact when the mood strikes. The moody dwarf will only grab unforbidden bars.


There is one possible horror I would like to point out. The problem is skill rusting, as was mentioned by someone earlier in the thread. I didn't know what to make of it at first, but I think I understand now. As far as I see, skill rust completely negates the fact that the dwarf has the skill at all, as far as moods are concerned. For example, a peasant with nothing but Novice Weaponsmithing (rusty) won't default onto weaponsmithing, but will instead turn to the default skill choices, such as masonry and bone-crafting. If this is incorrect, please let me know, as I have not had clear testing conditions for a clear answer.
I dont understand much of the rusting mechanics but I do believe you can unrust a skill if you give them enough practice. I may be wrong though it ought to work like that.

But I am too ADD to do that... :P
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This is a useful feature..and this is DF.. so im gonna assume its bugged
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Auning

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2012, 06:18:17 pm »

A quick semi-related question. Is it possible for a mooded dwarf to make exotic types of items? For example, morningstars, mauls, and other foreign items? Also, as I am currently mainly going after weapon creation, I've noticed a few items a favored a decent amount. Here are some numbers:

Short Swords: 5
Battle-axes: 10
Crossbows: 3
War Hammers: 8
Spears:3
Maces:8
Spikes:1
Spiked Balls: 2
Serrated Disks: 1
Large Axe Blades: 1

None of these were in their preferences, either. Does each item type have a static % of being chosen, then that is influenced by personality? It seems that trap components are considerably rarer than weapons. Also, I am confused by a lack of artifact picks. Are these just impossible to make?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 06:25:30 pm by Auning »
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Corai

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2012, 06:30:01 pm »

They can make ANY ITEM IN THE GAME while strangemooded.


Anything, even things to big to use.
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krenshala

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2012, 06:55:14 pm »

You need 20 (or more) dwarves to start getting moods.  I can confirm from personal experience that once you fort has reached the 20-dwarf threshold you can get moods even if your population has dropped below 20 again.

Also, the mood (happy/unhappy) of a dwarf only affects their chances of getting a macabre or fell mood, not whether they are possessed or not.  At least, not from what I've read and my own experience playing.  If Urist McCrafter is depressed over the murder of his guard kittens, he's much more likely to decide to make a table out of his son's bones, or a dwarf leather bikini out of his wife ...
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Friendstrange

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2012, 07:02:20 pm »

They can make ANY ITEM IN THE GAME while strangemooded.
Yeap, even Platinum Morningstars or Gold Sabres.

Yes.
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Auning

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2012, 09:10:20 pm »

They can make ANY ITEM IN THE GAME while strangemooded.
Yeap, even Platinum Morningstars or Gold Sabres.

Yes.
I'm a bit confused. I'm working with platinum solely and and I have only gotten the items I've listed above many times. Is it just a very low chance for these or...? Do you know how is it determined?
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krenshala

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2012, 10:25:19 pm »

Usually its because the dwarf likes a particular item (e.g. swords, or hammers) and thats the item he makes, even if the metal available as the base material isn't the best choice for the job.  There is some indication preference for a particular metal can influence the choice as well.  He likes bluemetal and hammers?  Yup, here's your adamantium war hammer! (Assign that to the Hammerer, of course. ;) )
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Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
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Mother: "...and after the evil snow butterfly was defeated, Domas and his kitten lived happily ever after!"
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ab00

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2012, 11:33:13 am »

I had this dwarf with a strange mood, and he collected all the normal items for a craft mood, but no metal. I then noticed, while he was working on the mood, that wood was the first ingredient. Well, I didn't really care about this guy, so I decided to forbid the wood while he was working. Surprisingly, he didn't go insane. When he finished working, the artifact was made out of iron... of which I have none on my map... Very strange, that mood.
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Kofthefens

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Re: Strange Mood cherry-picking
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2012, 11:45:50 am »

Awesome. What was it?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 11:50:25 am by Kofthefens »
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