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[JoshuaFH]

But man I'd like to change that.

I won't lie when I say that the idea of approaching women scares me quite a bit. It's just something that I've never had to deal with, as for years and years I've taken the mental exertion of brutally and mercilessly beating and tempering my emotions, for the purpose of completely excluding the need for female affection in my day to day life. Something has damaged my years of hard work though, in that my recent, albeit shallow and short, success in romance has left me with the tiniest fleck of confidence in my many years of living, and a great hunger to want to succeed more. The pure, coldly logical portion of my brain tells me that this will be the death of me, as in I'll literally die because of it, but I'd like to learn how to approach women and take control over my love life that has done nothing by dominate me for my entire existence.

I've been obsessively reading through "Help" sites, explaining how to go about it, but there's a great deal of inconsistency from one supposed expert to another. So I thought I'd ask my internet friends who OBVIOUSLY have reliable and trustworthy experience in the matter.

I feel that my first steps are to overcome the crippling fear of approaching and making conversation with a woman. I've never had a female friend so much, let alone a real girlfriend. When I see a cute girl, just anywhere, I'm not sure how speak with her, my mind is overcome with fear and deep down I feel I still have the years old conception of myself as this creepy, disgusting guy that noone wants to be familiar with, that I've built up from my many failures from HS. My esteem has improved considerably in every other aspect of my life, but just in this portion, I'm still the creepy dude in my head. I feel that needs to change somehow, someway.

But how?

[LordBucket]

This question is asked every few weeks, in one form or another. I'll give you the response I always give:

Tonight, before you go to bed, find a mirror and look yourself in the eyes. Say outloud that you're a great guy and that you're worthy of being loved. Maintain eye contact with yourself when you say it. Say it again. Tell yourself that you really are great and that you have value and worth.

"I'm a great guy. I'm worthy. I'm worthy of being loved. The love I have to give is worthy of being received."

Observe how this makes you feel. Pay attention to where your eyes want to move when you say it. Observe closely which muscles in your body are tense. Then go to bed. After you close your eyes, in the safe, quiet darkness of your bedroom, say to yourself that you're worthy, "I am worthy." Say it again, and again...and again. Keep saying it until you fall asleep.

Every day for a month go to sleep telling yourself that you're worthy. Not just once. Not just dozens of time, but for hours if you need to if that's how long it takes you to fall asleep.

After a month, go back to the mirror, look yourself in the eyes, and say out loud that you're a great guy, that you're totally worthy of being loved. Observe the difference in how you feel when you say it after a month compared to how you felt when you said it the first time. Notice how easy it becomes to smile while saying it.


After you've done that, feel free to come back and ask for advice on approaching women.

If you still need it.

[lordcooper]

Good things come to those who don't obsess over shit.

[eerr]

But man I'd like to change that.

I won't lie when I say that the idea of approaching women scares me quite a bit. It's just something that I've never had to deal with, as for years and years I've taken the mental exertion of brutally and mercilessly beating and tempering my emotions, for the purpose of completely excluding the need for female affection in my day to day life. Something has damaged my years of hard work though, in that my recent, albeit shallow and short, success in romance has left me with the tiniest fleck of confidence in my many years of living, and a great hunger to want to succeed more. The pure, coldly logical portion of my brain tells me that this will be the death of me, as in I'll literally die because of it, but I'd like to learn how to approach women and take control over my love life that has done nothing by dominate me for my entire existence.

I've been obsessively reading through "Help" sites, explaining how to go about it, but there's a great deal of inconsistency from one supposed expert to another. So I thought I'd ask my internet friends who OBVIOUSLY have reliable and trustworthy experience in the matter.

I feel that my first steps are to overcome the crippling fear of approaching and making conversation with a woman. I've never had a female friend so much, let alone a real girlfriend. When I see a cute girl, just anywhere, I'm not sure how speak with her, my mind is overcome with fear and deep down I feel I still have the years old conception of myself as this creepy, disgusting guy that noone wants to be familiar with, that I've built up from my many failures from HS. My esteem has improved considerably in every other aspect of my life, but just in this portion, I'm still the creepy dude in my head. I feel that needs to change somehow, someway.

But how?

Reveal and change underlying assumptions: preferably word for word.

Also, who is giving you these terrible self worth assesments? Shoot those bitches.

[LordBucket]

Good things come to those who don't obsess over shit.

Yes, and right on cue the bay12 hordes descend to tell you how your feelings don't matter, and that it's healthy to supress and "not give a fuck." As if years of internal dialogue, conjured fears and emotional self mutilation can simply be dismissed as easy as turning off a light switch.

I've given a recipe.

years and years I've taken the mental exertion of brutally and mercilessly
beating and tempering my emotions

Your emotions are part of you. Someday you may find that that portion of yourself that you've been beating is still somewhere inside you, locked away in a prison of your own creation. All the memories of those years of "brutal and merciless tempering" are in that cell, waiting for you to unlock the door. It's you that you've been torturing. And somehow, someday, there will need to be a reconciliation. Your first instinct may be to punish yourself for what you've done to that other portion of yourself.

That's not the answer.

You have to find it within yourself to forgive you for what you've done to yourself. It might not be easy. But I advise you to do it sooner rather than later before the pile of self-inflicted suffering grows larger.

How can you expect to have a meaningful emotional connection to somebody else if you're unable to connect with your own emotions?

[LordBucket]

Also, who is giving you these terrible self worth assesments? Shoot those bitches.

Wasn't that obvious? He is. Shooting himself is exactly what he's been doing already. You're advising him to continue burying himself.

[JoshuaFH]

You have a real talent for saying inspiring things LordBucket. I'll definitely keep your words in mind. I'm aware that this issue comes up every now and then, but I guess I had to jump on the "I'm a lonely dude help me" bandwagon sooner or later.

And I've already placed cooper on my ignore list for his insulting disparagement concerning this issue that sits so closely to my heart. He gets the liberty of being the only non-spammer on it.

[Bauglir]

LordBucket's is good advice. Before anything else anybody can say can happen, it's important to realize that you're probably not a creepy, disgusting guy. On the extraordinarily unlikely off-chance you are, you can change it. So even in the absolute worst case, you can succeed, and you probably don't have as far to go as you think. It may be hard! But you got this.

In more practical terms, once you've got through that, it can help to prioritize "cute girl" as a thought fairly low in importance, at least while you're still in the getting-to-know stage, which can last anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of weeks (whatever happens to work, so don't feel like you're presuming too much too quickly or you're not adapting fast enough). Focus less on "This is a girl I'd like to date" and more on "This is a person I'd like to spend time with" during that span.

And you don't have to feel that rejection implies you're a worse person than you thought. In all likelihood, it's just a poor fit. Circular peg into square hole doesn't actually mean that either is a bad peg or hole, just that they didn't work together.

... That sounded more like a euphemism than I meant it to. Sorry, but I can't think of a better metaphor than that, so you'll have to take it as is.

The most important thing to remember is not to feel like there's some objective standard of how you're supposed to feel or act. If you feel like you "have" to do or feel something, it might help to take a moment to consider why. It's entirely possible that your feeling that was correct, but you don't have to take it as a given.

Disclaimer: I've never actually had a functioning relationship. I also haven't been looking for one since before these thoughts occurred to me; the last time I actually was really trying, I thought following a girl around between classes, whether she wanted me to or not, was a good way to show her I cared. Obviously my thinking on the matter was pretty shitty. So, since I have no legitimate empiricism to back this post up, bear in mind that it is, at best, theory to be interpreted through the comments of other posters.

[nenjin]

I'll just summarize Lord Bucket: confidence is an aura that the opposite sex picks up on. And not even the in the totally full-of-yourself way. Just that quiet, self-assured way that let's them meet the real you, instead of the you that feels unworthy, unlovable and pathetic.

I recently went through a spell of this after a long stint being unemployed. And after getting a job and getting my sense of self-worth back, man, I'm getting more smiles and looks than I think I've ever remembered getting in my life.

I'd spend more time trying to figure out why you don't feel good about yourself than how to hook up. Because relationships are kind of like a pain killer for these issues. They dull the sense of worthlessness or whatever for a while, but they don't solve them. And when you get dumped....your depths are twice as deep as when you were still single and unattached.

When you can live with yourself, you'll find that other people want to live with you too.

And for reference, I was at times that creepy guy in HS too. I still unnerve some people just by the way I look. And yet I've had several good relationships with women that I never would have thought would have found me attractive. I've had relationships in RL and relationships that started online, pretty much confirming for me that my appearance and my personality are both likable and loveable to someone. Most of the relationships I did get into, however, were initiated by the woman. I still haven't quite gotten the hang of picking up women...but that's never how I've really rolled in the first place.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I won't lie when I say that the idea of approaching women scares me quite a bit.

Women are just people. If you can deal with men you can deal with women, it's just a matter of applying your behavior equally. 

It's just something that I've never had to deal with, as for years and years I've taken the mental exertion of brutally and mercilessly beating and tempering my emotions, for the purpose of completely excluding the need for female affection in my day to day life.

Pretty much the same deal with me. Intentionally ignoring any crushes I developed was SOP for the last seven years or so. Didn't do me much good in the end.

Something has damaged my years of hard work though, in that my recent, albeit shallow and short, success in romance has left me with the tiniest fleck of confidence in my many years of living, and a great hunger to want to succeed more. The pure, coldly logical portion of my brain tells me that this will be the death of me, as in I'll literally die because of it, but I'd like to learn how to approach women and take control over my love life that has done nothing by dominate me for my entire existence.

The coldly logical part of your brain should be informed that meaningful social contact is a necessity for humans, as vital to keeping us alive and sane as oxygen is. If you don't have it, it just takes much longer to kill you, in the most deeply painful way possible. Remember that if you ever want to go back on this decision.

I've been obsessively reading through "Help" sites, explaining how to go about it, but there's a great deal of inconsistency from one supposed expert to another. So I thought I'd ask my internet friends who OBVIOUSLY have reliable and trustworthy experience in the matter.

First of all, do not, and I repeat, do not ever listen to Pickup Artists (AKA:PUA or the Seduction Community). They are the worst people when it comes to understanding healthy romantic relationships. While I would admire their attempt to understand and quantify social relationships, they do so in a pseudo-scientific manner. There's also the part where they view women and sex in much the same way that farmers view cows and milk. That's no fun either.

In fact, you should probably just ignore internet help sites on relationships wholesale. The forum is another story because there's a different dynamic, but be prepared to dismiss our advice should you need to. Use your head on this.

I feel that my first steps are to overcome the crippling fear of approaching and making conversation with a woman. I've never had a female friend so much, let alone a real girlfriend. When I see a cute girl, just anywhere, I'm not sure how speak with her, my mind is overcome with fear and deep down I feel I still have the years old conception of myself as this creepy, disgusting guy that noone wants to be familiar with, that I've built up from my many failures from HS. My esteem has improved considerably in every other aspect of my life, but just in this portion, I'm still the creepy dude in my head. I feel that needs to change somehow, someway.

But how?

Pretend. Pretend you are the person you want to be. Pretend that the women you talk to are other men if that'll keep you calm. Pretend that you have all the positive traits you want to have. If you pretend long enough, it'll become a part of your personality. This is called internalization, and is a well recorded psychological phenomenon in which the outer facade will eventually alter the inner personality if maintained for long enough.

I would also suggest that you start running every day. Get some simple running clothes and cheap running shoes that fit you. Walk if you get tired, but keep doing it over and over until you can run the entire initial route, and then extend the route. Listen to music while you're doing this to alleviate boredom and distract yourself from fatigue. I suggest this because it will make you feel better in general, mostly because you'll be high on endorphins if you keep it up long enough. Don't worry, there's no negative side effects.

Disclaimer: I have also never had a romantic relationship, but I've observed human behavior for a long time out of curiosity towards the social dynamics of other people. This advice is the end result of my attempt to learn how to be more sociable. Except the running, that I do have some experience in.

And I've already placed cooper on my ignore list for his insulting disparagement concerning this issue that sits so closely to my heart. He gets the liberty of being the only non-spammer on it.

He didn't voice it very well, but cooper does have a valid point. If you think too hard about this you'll go nowhere. Beware your ability to analyze things mentally. It's useful, but it will only cause you problems and lead you to false conclusions if you overdo it. There's no way to progress in lifestyle changes if you are freaking out about it all the time. A relaxed emotional state is another thing you should try to internalize. People who do that successfully are what we generally see as "chill".

[JoshuaFH]

I very much appreciate the perspective and advice Nenjin and MSH. Especially the exercise part MSH, that's always helpful, like regardless of your situation in life. I do pushups every now and again while listening to heavy metal.

Now I just feel like an ass, so I just decided to un-ignore cooper cause that was just me being too touchy there for a second.

[CodexDraco]

Hi Joshua,

I don't think your problem has anything to do with self esteem, but it is caused by anxiety. The thoughts of you being creepy are irrational and unfounded and it's important to know you can't really control what you think, but you can control how these affect you.

The best thing you can do is to regularly talk with female coworkers at lunch or whatever and it will become increasingly easier.

But the most important thing I can advise is that you get professional help because advise from random internet strangers can be counterproductive.

Good luck!

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Aura of confidence. That's all you need. No woman, no matter who it is, doesn't want a guy who's confident and sure of himself. I can tell you this from experience, I may not be a looker myself [in my opinion], but I've gotten some damn fine women just being myself and coming off a real, legitimate person. Sometimes just being a man is enough for some women. Others like the shy guy. Others want the aggressive in bed type. It's impossible to nail down women advice, no matter who you are.

Women are just people. If you can deal with men you can deal with women, it's just a matter of applying your behavior equally. 

Is a quote you should hold to heart. They're just people. Everyone's different in what they find attractive or not. All you need to do is be you and someone will be there for you, friend. Just don't beat yourself up for not finishing the race sooner than others.


If your self-worth really is a hinderance to approaching females at all, though, I advise some sort of counseling. That's unhealthy behavior and if you're scared because you think you're not worthy of anyone's attention, you should address it. You're certainly worthy of our attention, and we're strangers. Who's to say a lovely lady wouldn't think you're nice after getting to know you? Just believe in yourself and things will get better in this area. I promise that to you as a lifelong nerd who's never had a lack of relations. Except highschool, but, that's a nil part of life anyways. Older women are better.

[noodle0117]

If confidence is a problem, start talking with a somewhat less attractive girl or a girl that you wouldn't really mind giving up if she gets weirded out or repulsed.

Made talking to girls a lot easier for me after a month or so.

[Seamas]

As long as you´re just making small talk, etc, I just pretend that I´m talking to a dude.  It makes it much easier.  Obviously most of us don´t have any problem shooting the breeze with other guys, so once you remove that mental red flag (attractive woman!) just carry on as normal.