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[Graknorke]

But at the same time, a glassworker would become more "artistic" from making glass crafts, but that's not going to make them any better at whittling wood into rings.

[Williham]

Well, it kind of would. They would get a better sense of how a ring should look, in general, and they would get a better sense of how to learn how to use various tools, allowing them to more quickly learn other crafts (just like someone who plays the guitar will learn how to play the piano more quickly: they have fewer hurdles to jump over when learning, boiling the learning process down to basically "where do I put my hands to make this sound?").

[Graknorke]

From what I remember of glass crafting, they blow the crafts straight from molten glass. While someone like, sya, a gen cutter would have an understanding of cutting and whittling tools, I don't think a glassblower really has much expertise in that area.

[Williham]

Glass crafting also uses molds, which are created by making an imprint of the item you want to make a copy of, and blowing glass into the mold. The skills for making templates and molds would transfer well to woodcrafting.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Also, glassblowers would probably learn how yo operate furnaces without paying much attention to them, a skill that would likely be useful for potters and perhaps smiths.

[Z1000000m]

The way I see it, you guys are looking for addtional skills, like how archer and crosssbows , fighter and all attack skills level up together.
For example, both engraving and masonry should add towards stoneworker skill, -crafters add to craftsdwarf et cetera.
It should apply to certain skills.

stoneworker - mason + engraver (+ perhaps the stonecrafter)
woodworker - bow making + carpentry (+ perhaps woodcrafting)
craftsdwarf - all crafts (artistic aptitude, trained dexterity)
metalworker - all metal related skills except smelting
furnace dwarf (it sounds stupid, I know that) - furnace operator + woodburner (dwarf should know how to work with the furnace)

In my opinion, it should only affect how fast can a dwarf learn a similiar trade. It makes no sense at all for a dabbling stonecrafter to start making exceptional crafts just because he made a masterwork palm ring.

There are other possible combos, but, frankly, they seem redundant.

[Stormy_2021]

Clearly, we need a more robust system that allows sensible skill synergy and adapts itself to modding (new materials, new skills, new items, etc.) without requiring massive investments of time. I would prefer the composite skills idea, in one form or another. Basically, any job trains three composite skills: a material skill, a product skill, and a tool/process skill. The game would determine the available skills based on the available materials etc. in the raws. That way a dwarf that made stone furniture would be better in making wooden furniture than, say, a fisher.

I think you are being a little simplistic with your calculations, it seems like a piece of code that works through a table of relations would work, and that would be a resource that the community could provide and refine itself.  However, I really like the idea of organizing or designing the skill bleeding mechanic (or really, redesigning the whole skill system through it) around material, product, and processes.  It makes a lot of sense, but I would also think that personal stats would also be a part of that synergy.  woodcutting and mining aren't very similar, but they both require great strength, and working with crafts would exercise your dexterity and possibly your artistry.  I don't actually know if stats currently change, but perhaps they should over time, and perhaps the stats could work alongside this new skill system, to provide some realistic synergy between skills that aren't related through tools, processes, or materials.

[Silverionmox]

I wanted to prevent a situation where the skill synergy becomes a sprawling mess that nobody has a real handle on. And even after lengthy discussion by the community there would inevitably be some synergies everyone disagreed with, leaving you with the chore to hunt down the few offending anomalies and change them manually. Lastly, adding stuff becomes much simpler if the skill system incorporates the new things automatically.

Body stats could be factored in the job result easily, they're a number. I personally see them as the nature part, where the skills represent the nurture part of the equation. But eg. a bit of muscle buildup wouldn't mess that up, I presume.

[dwarf_sadist]

Maybe we should scrap the entire skill thing, and replace it by something else. A couple of bitmaps representing complimentary skills for example. A dangerroom would only be able to train some of these(Endurance, evasion, ...) and only up to a certain level, at which point it'll slowly reduce. Same for other things.

This solves the issue where any repetitive task can create a legendary fellow, as you really have to do a variety of tasks to unlock all the subskills.

RESURRECTION!!!!!

I would highly recommend Age of Decadence as a starting point for their skill synergy. Their system allows you to place one point into a skill, with all skills related to that skill going up a little bit as well but at different rates.

For instance, placing a point in daggers would increase your dagger skill by one point, but would also increase your swrod skill by 0.4, axes by 0, and your thrown weapons skill by 0.7. Raising your sword skill by 1 would increase sword by 1, axe by 0.2, dagger by 0.3, blunt by 0.4, shields by 0.1 and thrown weapons by 0. The more important a skill is, the more it raises everything else around it while at the same time not increasing every skill.

Tangent on skill synergies:


Synergies are quite interesting. What do you think would be a viable skill boost from a synergistic ability? Half maybe? Or a third?

For example, if you have a level 12 weaponsmith who is also a level 0 armorsmith, should he function as a level 6 armorsmith? Or as a level 4 armorsmith?

If all metalworking skills were synergistic with each other (which does make a certain amount of sense, as its all working with metal on a forge), and could a dwarf who is a legendary weaponsmith, legendary armorsmith, legendary blacksmith also function as a legendary metalcrafter even if the dwarf has 0 skill in metalcrafting?

But on the flipside, could synergies boost skills beyond legendary+5? What if you have a dwarf who is legendary +5 in all metal working skills? As they're all synergistic with each other would there be any benefit, or should synergies only be beneficial for dwarves who have yet to reach maximum skill in any given job? If a dwarf is already legendary+5 does he really need any bonuses? Of course if synergies can apply to boost a skill beyond legendary+5, then new skill levels must be created in the game engine to use these synergies.

Maybe the very high skills, like legendary+10 or +20 can only be reached through synergies? The individual skills are still capped at +5, however through synergies they can be boosted even higher.

These could apply to any skills that work together well, including military. A warrior skilled with an axe should be much better at using a sword than a new recruit is, even if the axedwarf has no prior experience with a sword.

My original suggestion was to do away with the entire skill level system(at least in mechanics, not in representation), and replace it with a enormous amount of subset skill. Experience gain would be represented by each of these subset skills being fulfilled and improved. Some subset skills would be used by multiple skills, while others wouldn't. Which subset skills the dwarf learns first depends on what you make him do. So constant mug/stone craft production would be beneficial to the engravement skill, but having the stonecrafter make heavy items would benefit the mason skill more.

As said before, this solves using a single repetitive task for training up to legendary, and unites skills a bit more. Skill synergies in this way don't provide any boosts, they just mean that the same subskill can be used for multiple things (Same as if the experience were shared.). So no boosting above legendary +5 (Though getting there without crosstraining might be quite a lot harder.)


For ease of representation, the skill systems is probably best preserved, if only in name.

((There was a thread, not mine, about this))

[Orange Wizard]

I like the idea of skills being tied to attributes.

---------------------------

Hypothetical Situation:

Skill A relies on Attributes A, B and C.
Skill B also relies on Attributes A, B and C.

Dwarf 1 is a Legendary Skill A-er. Because of this, his Attributes A, B and C have increased to Very High levels.

When Dwarf 1 tries to learn Skill B, the rate at which he learns is increased because he has higher attributes associated with that skill.
No complicated skill-similarities. Just relate the skills with the attributes.

[Graknorke]

I like the idea of skills being tied to attributes.

---------------------------

Hypothetical Situation:

Skill A relies on Attributes A, B and C.
Skill B also relies on Attributes A, B and C.

Dwarf 1 is a Legendary Skill A-er. Because of this, his Attributes A, B and C have increased to Very High levels.

When Dwarf 1 tries to learn Skill B, the rate at which he learns is increased because he has higher attributes associated with that skill.
No complicated skill-similarities. Just relate the skills with the attributes.

I'm pretty sure I exhoed this sentiment previously in this thread, but this is probably the best system. More attributes would be needed, but probably not actually that many.

[zwei]

I would like "expertize" skill synergy. Basically, each skill would have list of things that are part of that skill.

For example, Woodcrafter would have "small crafts, wood, ammunition, furniture", Bonecarver would have "small craft, bone, ammunition, armor, decoration" a Bowyer would have "wood, weapons" while Engraver gets "stone, decoration".

Woodcrafter woéuld have small synergy to bowyer (only one item in common), but larger with Bonecarver (two items in common).

Introducing new skill can be easy this way - just conjure list of related items.

[assasin]

personally I'd prefer a exaton of small skills and each proffession would use a bunch of them. for example each sword technique would be a separate skill. dwarves would train up parrying separately to thrusting or whatever. various types of grappling and stances could also have their own skills which swordsdwarves would learn. yes, its a lot of work. do I expect it to happen, probably not. is it my opinion. yes.