Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Digital Hellhound]

Man, Elves of Amanereli was way back in 2010? I feel so old. Still gold, though.

[Andres]

I'm not planning to run this in any way but I just want to flesh out the idea in my head.

Bleach SG where players play as a hollow.

They get their own unique gimmick and eat people to get more powerful (difficulty comes from soul reapers). Eventually, they'll get powerful enough that they'll need to hunt and eat hollows, increasing the difficulty of the game in a way that scales with their higher power. Eventually, they'll be part of a feeding frenzy, turn into a gillian, and then there'll be a time skip until the point where they become an adjuchas.

After that, the difficulty scales up and they have to eat gillians and adjuchas in order to become a vasto lorde.

At any point in their evolution (including when they're a normal hollow and excluding when they're a gillian), they can rip off their mask and become an arrancar, gaining a crap-ton of reishi and some soul reaper powers, eating requirements are lessened greatly and don't increase as power rises, and training can be used to increase power as well as skill. There are a few downsides to this, however...
The process releases a bunch of energy and greatly weakens them, making death by getting eaten a possibility since the release of energy would attract hollows.
The process could simply fail, resulting in the above release of energy and weakening without the extra power that an arrancar form would bring. This translates into increased chance of getting eaten by hollows, of course, but it can also kill the character if they're too weak or get too unlucky.
Eating does not give as much power as it used to, though it's still better for increasing power than training.
Menos grande evolution cannot continue once the character becomes an arrancar. This won't matter at all to a vasto lorde, but to normal hollows, it means a less awesome-looking resurreccion. For adjuchas, it means no segunda etapa. For both, it means a less powerful resurreccion.

[FallacyofUrist]

... aye. That sounds !!fun!!!

[BlitzDungeoneer]

That sounds really fun.
Tried to do something similar, but it never got past even the Gaming Block stage since I didn't think it through very well.

[Urist Arrhenius]

Thinking of running a game, below is the OP as it stands now. It would feature both PvP and PvE combat, and after a winner was declared from the first game I would rework balancing as was necessary. Would people be interested/what feedback do you have?

Chroma Arcana

   The White Wizard stands before you, flanked by the Red Warlock, Green Sorcerer, and Blue Mage.

   ”Welcome, initiates. Within lies arena, designed to select from amongst you only those worthy. Those of weak will need not enter, but great power awaits those who brave the challenges.”

   The Red Warlock split off from the group and went to stand in front of two doors. ”Through my path lies might. You will gain the strength to crush those who oppose you.”

   From another set of doors the Green Sorcerer spoke. ”Through my path lies harmony. The world around will serve you, and you will discover great secrets.”

   Finally the Blue Mage intoned, ”Through my path lies peace. You will gain the power over life, and the wisdom to protect it.”

Which path will you choose?

Submit a character sheet and your chosen path; the first two submissions for each path will be chosen.

Spoiler: Character Sheet (click to show/hide)

Name: NAME (Symbol)
Pool: #000000/#000000
Health: 10/10 (Red/2 + Green/4 + Blue/4 + 10)
Damage: 2 (Green/4 + Blue/8 + Red/8 +2)
Armor: 0 (Blue/6 +Green/12 + Red/12)
Spells: -

Code: (Character Sheet) [Select]

[b]Name[/b]:
[b]Pool[/b]: #000000/#000000
[b][color=#FF0000]Health[/color][/b]: 10/10
[b][color=#00FF00]Damage[/color][/b]: 2
[b][color=#0000FF]Armor[/color][/b]: 0
[b]Spells[/b]: -

Spoiler: Example Sheet (click to show/hide)

Name: White Wizard (WW)
Pool: #FFFFFF/#FFFFFF
Health: 266/266
Damage: 130
Armor: 85
Spells: All of them
[spoiler=Actions]
You may take 1 free move action each turn, followed by one of the below actions. Turn order will be established at the start of the game and will not change except where otherwise noted. Map will update after all players have posted their turn.

Move: Move 3 hex
Attack: Deal your damage – opponents armor to an adjacent opponents health.
Harvest: You gain 8 points to the color of the hex harvested. For hexes with two colors you gain 4 points to each (i.e. 4 red and 4 blue for harvesting a #FF00FF hex).
Cast: Cast a spell, subject to the rules of that spell.
Rest: Regain 25% of your pool and Health

Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)

Spells are unlocked by increasing your max pool to a certain level, and they expend some of your current pool to cast. Below are the first 7 spells, and their unlock levels. Note: some spells upgrade at later levels rather than unlocking new spells.

Flametouch: 4 damage to an adjacent enemy, ignores armor (cost: #040000) [unlock: #100000]
Thorns: Place a thorny barrier. Enemies take 6 damage for walking through it, respects armor (cost: #000400) [unlock: #001000]
Soothing Waters: Heal yourself or another, adjacent, for 5 points (cost: #000004) [unlock: #000010]
Lightning Bolt: 1-4 an enemy 1 hex away, ignores armor (cost: #020200) [unlock: #080800]
Distortion Shield: 50% bonus to armor for 3 turns (cost: #020002) [unlock: #080008]
Entropic Field: Effects yourself or another, adjacent. Next spell cast on them has a 12.5% to do double effect, a 25% to behave normally, a 25% to reflect on the caster, a 12.5% chance to do double effect on caster, a 20% chance to dissipate without effect, and a 5% chance to affect everyone. (cost: #000202) [unlock: #000808]
Critical Strike I: 16% chance of dealing 2x damage to an opponent on an attack (Passive) [unlock: 080808]

[escaped lurker]

Thinking of running a game, below is the OP as it stands now. It would feature both PvP and PvE combat, and after a winner was declared from the first game I would rework balancing as was necessary. Would people be interested/what feedback do you have?

I actually really like the intro. It is short, but quite to the point and gives all information needed to start and what to expect of the game. As for the idea of using colours / powers in this way, it is quite inituitive, and definitely on the good side of ingenious.

Maybe a tad too much ingenious though, as you might want to include a link which explains how to work that colour-number system. That, or I am part of a very strange minority, which can't make heads or tails of it by themselves. ;3
Actually wait, you just might not want to. It could weed out those not enthusiastic enough to search for it themselves, which serves as a good indicator for their likely future activity...

[Urist Arrhenius]

Thinking of running a game, below is the OP as it stands now. It would feature both PvP and PvE combat, and after a winner was declared from the first game I would rework balancing as was necessary. Would people be interested/what feedback do you have?

I actually really like the intro. It is short, but quite to the point and gives all information needed to start and what to expect of the game. As for the idea of using colours / powers in this way, it is quite inituitive, and definitely on the good side of ingenious.

Maybe a tad too much ingenious though, as you might want to include a link which explains how to work that colour-number system. That, or I am part of a very strange minority, which can't make heads or tails of it by themselves. ;3
Actually wait, you just might not want to. It could weed out those not enthusiastic enough to search for it themselves, which serves as a good indicator for their likely future activity...

Thanks! If you're interested, I just posted the game.

[Mlamlah]

Man, Elves of Amanereli was way back in 2010? I feel so old. Still gold, though.

I wasn't around quite so far back, but i went through every available page in the FG and R index a little while ago to seek out old games to read >>.
I'm kind of sad that they never did another game after that.

[IronyOwl]

I have a crafting system I'd like critiqued. Long story short, I tried making a crafting system for a Dwarf Fortress game, and quickly realized that the usual quality tiers basically meant everything but Masterpieces were placeholder garbage while you leveled. It also meant that the best at a given skill would often be the only one worth having perform it.

Roll	Chance	Name	Effect
20	5	CRIT!	+2 XP; Artifact based on materials, surroundings, crafter, tools, etc.
17-19	15	Bonus	+1 XP; Stylized Item
11-16	30	Good	Material, Item, Style, Motif
5-10	30	Poor	Material, Item, Style
2-4	15	Malus	Material, Item, Style; Clothing Wear
1	5	FAIL!	Material, Item, Style; Injury

Material and Item are fairly self-explanatory. Material is Stone, Wood, Bone (including shell, horn, etc) and so on; whatever the item is primarily made of. Item is Goblet, Plate, Ring, Sword, Turban, and so on.

Style is the item's general shape, how it handles edges and corners, what it does to get from one segment to another, and so on. Two items of the same Style would be recognizable as coming from the same crafter or culture; Organic, Graceful, Flowing, Industrial, and Like Electrified Syrup Frozen In Mid Thrash might all be Styles.

Motif is an item's innate decorations. The little Skulls or Dolphins around the rim, the Cloud shape around the handle, or the giant Squares on the sides would all be Motifs.

Stylized Items are items which are shaped like their Motifs. A table that actually looks like a swarm of grasshoppers, a dolphin head you can drink out of, and a sword shaped like a bolt of lightning would all be Stylized.


XP is used to purchase Specializations, which are all of the above: Materials, Items, Motifs, and Styles. For instance, a character might have:

Materials: Stone, Wood
Items: Goblets, Swords
Styles: Melting
Motifs: Badgers

So they could make Goblets or Swords out of Stone or Wood. Since they only know one Style, everything they make would look like it's Melting a bit. Since they only have one Motif, any decorations they produce would feature Badgers. For a point of XP, they could gain a new Specialization in any of the above categories; learn how to work with Cloth, figure out how to craft Tables, devise a new Twisting Style, or master the art of decorating things with Bees, for instance.


So the above solves several problems; notably, any item you make is theoretically worth something even if you've got a poor roll or better crafters running around, since poor rolls mean side effects and less decoration (which isn't always a bad thing), and being a better crafter means more options rather than objectively better products. At the same time, higher rolls are still generally better, and being a better crafter is still something to aspire to.

I'm a little concerned that it might not be freeform enough for items that aren't being mass produced, though. Suppose somebody gets a boar's tusk, pearl, and giant eagle feather, for instance, and decides they want to make a cool spear out of them. Other than keeping them on hand waiting for a CRIT!, I'm not sure what you'd do with that.


Any thoughts on any of this?

[Urist Arrhenius]

I like the overall concept, though I think it places too much of the crafting in luck. Shouldn't the craftsman know ahead of time that they're making a dolphin head cup rather than discovering at the end of the process they had accidentally produced one? I think that the separation of styles and motifs is perhaps its strongest point though, since it does highlight different levels of artistic achievement. I wonder if you could make producing a stylized item just be a more difficult roll, that way you can attempt to intentionally produce those items, which you noted was an issue if you have materials you strongly care about.

Another solution to that problem might be to allow people to sacrifice XP for the sake of good rolls, basically letting them force their way into a stylized item for the things they really care about. Or allow people to choose different crafting time lengths to distinguish between the kind of mass production which occasionally produces magnificent work from the kind of careful attention which routinely produces it, but on a much slower time scale.

To what degree can you use experience to gain more ability within a category, rather than simply purchasing a new category? It sounds like once you have melting badger stone swords, you're already the best at producing melting badger stone swords you can possibly be. Which would mean all your growth is horizontal; you gain breadth rather than depth.

Also, I'me really interested in this game now...

[IronyOwl]

I like the overall concept, though I think it places too much of the crafting in luck. Shouldn't the craftsman know ahead of time that they're making a dolphin head cup rather than discovering at the end of the process they had accidentally produced one? I think that the separation of styles and motifs is perhaps its strongest point though, since it does highlight different levels of artistic achievement. I wonder if you could make producing a stylized item just be a more difficult roll, that way you can attempt to intentionally produce those items, which you noted was an issue if you have materials you strongly care about.

Or allow people to choose different crafting time lengths to distinguish between the kind of mass production which occasionally produces magnificent work from the kind of careful attention which routinely produces it, but on a much slower time scale.

The thing I'm afraid of with stuff like this is what happens to lower/cheaper/easier grade crafting in this scenario. Sure, you could mass produce mugs or whatever in the beginning when nobody has any, and if it's gated by skill you might just not be able to do anything different until you've unlocked the more advanced options. But once everybody has a stone mug or someone reaches the requisite level of skill, demand just dries up. I'm not sure how much point there is to adding "this sucks but it's the best you'll have for a while" tiers to the game, and I know I'd prefer it if being good at something didn't automatically preclude anyone else from attempting it.

The other obvious solution is to sell them, as in regular DF, but that runs into fairly serious believability concerns. Who exactly is buying all these shoddy stone mugs and why? Nobody else should need them either.

I did actually have one answer to this, and that was consumable items. Rather than just having a mug to have a mug, or having a mug to provide your Drinking Container bonus to morale, you could "eat" them for extra morale, thereby providing a constant demand for basic goods. The idea being that if you're able to be careless with your possessions, you can get more enjoyment out of them than you could being as extra careful as you are with your ultra special ruby-and-emerald studded badger-motif platinum goblet decorated with topaz skulls.

The problem with this is that we're back to two classes of items- garbage and notgarbage- and we still need to answer a lot of questions about what level is expected or normal for each, and possibly why some players/characters can afford to consume better or worse stuff than the default production rate would imply. And again, hopefully without relying too much on "er, you suck for a while, then you suck less" too much as an answer.

Another solution to that problem might be to allow people to sacrifice XP for the sake of good rolls, basically letting them force their way into a stylized item for the things they really care about.

Possibly, but I don't think I'd want to remove randomness entirely from rolls you "care about." I could certainly see an argument for it, especially with items you've "earned" and are meaningful to you rather than stuff you've bought or harvested relatively routinely. But again, I don't want too much of a divide between useless faff and "real" items, because at that point we don't really need the faff at all.

To what degree can you use experience to gain more ability within a category, rather than simply purchasing a new category? It sounds like once you have melting badger stone swords, you're already the best at producing melting badger stone swords you can possibly be. Which would mean all your growth is horizontal; you gain breadth rather than depth.

This was the intent, yeah. Again, if you're able to produce Tier 2 melting badger stone swords, T1 badger stone swords start to become obsolete at some point, which has a number of unfortunate implications. One being that T1 swords are, to an extent, just placeholders; you don't want them so much as are unable to acquire anything better up until a certain point. Another is that once somebody else can produce T2 swords, trying to become a swordsmith is largely a lost cause, because they're already objectively better at it than you are; at a minimum, everything you produce while leveling will be garbage, and it's likely they'll continue leveling above you as well. A third is that if you can produce swords, you're probably going to be hard-pressed to justify doing anything but getting the next tier of them, since that's likely more useful than branching out into chests or glass or whatever.

All that being said, watching your numbers go up is fun, and if you shear out anything unnecessary at some point you don't have much game left. But I can't think of a height-focused leveling scheme I like, so it's come out completely width-based so far.

Also, I'me really interested in this game now...

Glad to hear that. :3

[Kadzar]

Maybe the crappier mugs or whatever could be used as a component to make the better mugs somehow?

[escaped lurker]

Not sure if I'm really going somewhere productive with this line of thought, but here it is either way;

Material difficulty. Most easily seen in smithing, producing something out of gold, silver or copper is comparatively easy, if compared to the process of creating something out of iron or steel. Sure enough, just stoke the fire high enough and you can get pretty much the same result with each of them, but moulding the softer metals under your hammer will be much faster. Thus, it obviously also should give more xp to a beginner, who still needs to master the trade, but less xp to one who has already done so and now puts his focus towards works of steel.

Soft & Hardwood, Stones of vastly varying strength, Making a poultice or tea instead of a salve, Carving a shoulder blade - or a skull, Cutting a lesser gem or a diamond, Training a dog or a wild beast. Yeah, I guess this "system" could work for most jobs.

Most of these easy materials can hold a lesser profit margin, either by being worth less in the first place, a greater supply of products made of them, or "higher" standards on crafts with them. Like, a 4 gram gold ring, will mostly cost its material. The difference in price between a plain one, and one beautifully engraved, is not all that pronounced, safe you want a mastwork ring with fiery-glowing runes and a magical cloaking ability. Heh.

[Urist Arrhenius]

-snip-

Yeah, you're responses make sense, and I can see how you're preventing placeholders. I just wanted to poke at your system as much as possible. Attempts to be helpful and whatnot.

I think you can still consider an advancement that doesn't change the quality from level I to level II, but rather changes the probabilities of different outcomes. The earlier mentioned suggestion of salvaging materials from poor outcomes could also help deal with the rare item issue.

[IronyOwl]

Maybe the crappier mugs or whatever could be used as a component to make the better mugs somehow?

I did consider this at one point, but it's basically just a different implementation of better crafting taking longer, which doesn't answer the question of why anybody'd need or want to stop at the lower-level stuff.

Not sure if I'm really going somewhere productive with this line of thought, but here it is either way;

Material difficulty. Most easily seen in smithing, producing something out of gold, silver or copper is comparatively easy, if compared to the process of creating something out of iron or steel. Sure enough, just stoke the fire high enough and you can get pretty much the same result with each of them, but moulding the softer metals under your hammer will be much faster. Thus, it obviously also should give more xp to a beginner, who still needs to master the trade, but less xp to one who has already done so and now puts his focus towards works of steel.

Soft & Hardwood, Stones of vastly varying strength, Making a poultice or tea instead of a salve, Carving a shoulder blade - or a skull, Cutting a lesser gem or a diamond, Training a dog or a wild beast. Yeah, I guess this "system" could work for most jobs.

Most of these easy materials can hold a lesser profit margin, either by being worth less in the first place, a greater supply of products made of them, or "higher" standards on crafts with them. Like, a 4 gram gold ring, will mostly cost its material. The difference in price between a plain one, and one beautifully engraved, is not all that pronounced, safe you want a mastwork ring with fiery-glowing runes and a magical cloaking ability. Heh.

Hmmmm. I kind of like this idea, though I'm not sure there's an elegant way to implement it. It also runs into oddities regarding difficult and expensive not being the same thing; any noob can smith wondrous items out of platinum or gold, but only a master can produce a cheap iron sword?

But the basic idea that anyone can work basic materials without too much difficulty, but that you need to specialize a bit to get the higher stuff is interesting. It still runs into shades of all the usual problems, but it's at least plausible that somebody would be fine working normal stones without knowing how to handle the fancier stuff.

The major issue I do have, though, is that in practice the distinction probably isn't going to be that severe. I mean, if you learn how to make stone mugs, are you honestly going to be fine making nothing but normal-tier mugs, or when you get a hold of fancy stones are you totally going to want to make something awesome out of them? I'd put money on the latter, which brings us back to the usual issues. In fact, it's precisely that kind of prediction that's making me wonder about the current system, since a poor roll with fancy materials is just kind of disappointing.

Maybe I should keep the current system for mass production and let players do single crafting attempts with a slightly different table, with more of an "you accidentally engrave it with cockroaches" vibe? But then artifacts lose their punch...

-snip-

Yeah, you're responses make sense, and I can see how you're preventing placeholders. I just wanted to poke at your system as much as possible. Attempts to be helpful and whatnot.

I think you can still consider an advancement that doesn't change the quality from level I to level II, but rather changes the probabilities of different outcomes. The earlier mentioned suggestion of salvaging materials from poor outcomes could also help deal with the rare item issue.

I certainly appreciate it. I feel like I've got a better grasp on my system than I did before.

As for the outcome probability, again, that's leaning back towards "this sucks, but you'll be producing them for a while anyway." There's no real getting around having random rolls AND better or worse outcomes, but one thing I like about this system is that it's at least pretending a plain plate can be better than a leaf-shaped plate, which I assume is true to the right people.

Well, that and I'm not sure adding numbers to the roll would be worth the trouble.

Hm. I wonder if different tiers could give different consume/sit around bonuses? Maybe plain stuff is great for treating very casually, and by the time you get to leaf-shaped plates breaking them tends to make you almost as sad as you were happy from being able to not worry about them.

But again, simple. "Morale Consumption Coefficients" is probably a warning sign that I need to keep things simple. :x