Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Digital Hellhound]

I love that the example mission already goes totally balls-up. Really setting the tone there.

For setting, I'd go with futuristic or scifi; though of course you could have, say, 40s tech mixed with advanced technology. Could you share the combat system more in detail?

(Not really relevant, but I somehow got the idea of an Urban Fantasy XCOM-style game. Maybe I could mix it with the Mage Council idea from way back.)

[Mesa]

Sometimes I hate myself - I've got some pretty decent game concepts, but they also all die horrible deaths due to my own incompetence and poor management.
Alright, 'ts just about my own bloody laziness, but still.

(although there's one game of mine that might be coming back really soon, even though it's not being made directly by me (I still get to help the new GM with some of the content) and hopefully everyone should like it)

[Chiefwaffles]

The combat would be semi-simple to keep myself from burning out easily, and is more or less based on the D20 system.
When combat first start, I would look at the environment for possible modifiers. Cover may be a thing, but I'm not sure. Certain conditions would help/penalize various rolls.

What happens in combat:

A weapon is fired -> Accuracy rating of weapon w/ modifiers, such as stats/items rolls against defender's agility, w/ modifiers, like the environment, a good "dodge-armor", etc.
If hit, then the damage range of the weapon (e.g. 4-12) is 'rolled' against the armor rating of the opponent, for total damage.
The damage is then deducted from a hidden health stat(, though health loss is hardly the only way to die in combat), and the severity of the wound is chosen by me, based on the damage.
If I want, I can roll again for severity of wound if it's a lot of damage/any other time, for non-health related effects.

Throughout the combat, I may roll for Luck. (Possibly another hidden stat?)

Things such as initiative, etc. are left to the GM to choose based on the situation.

[Chiefwaffles]

I devised a starter post for the game. Any feedback for the setting of the game, and the supposed post in general?

Spoiler: Intro 1 - Dystopian Future (click to show/hide)

The year is 2492. From an external viewpoint, Humanity has grown and seemingly prospered. That's not quite the story from the inside, though.
In 2152, a basic form of FTL travel was discovered, but only the prosperous corporations at the time could afford even the tiniest FTL equipped ships, and thus only they could spread out into space. This of course led to the same corporations colonizing the same planets for their goals, and brought employees to work and develop them. The wealth from these worlds rich with resources let the companies expand even more, absorbing smaller ones. This pattern continued to this very day. Earth has been exploited completely, and exists only to house the cities sprawling across the entire planet. These cities are filled with many people, but their common aspect is that none of them were fortunate enough to be chosen by the Alliance for Progress, the group formed by the mega corporations. The technology on earth is basic at best. Obsolete technology from the 21st century is still in wide use, and modern tech hasn't been seen by the extreme majority of the inhabitants.

However, someone has just been hit by a stroke of luck that may start something. Something big. But first, who is that person, and what did they do for a living?

((The "story" will be a sort-of-rebel-but-not-really group, equipped with technology from modern day, founded by the character.))

The following intros don't really have a good overarching story, which is something I should address.

Spoiler: Intro 2 - Apparent Paradise (click to show/hide)

   Paradise. To its citizens, earth was a perfect city-planet with everything one could ever want, and nothing else.

At least that's what most of the well-off civilians believe.
Beneath its seemingly perfect shell, there lies a horrible underworld, filled with thieves, scoundrels, thugs, and more. In the space outside, lied black markets, pirates, slave worlds, and the occasional colonized planet.

This is where you step in. But you have to remind yourself; what is your goal, and who are you?

((Again, not much of a storyline for the player, unless I can make one as I go. Same below. Players control a group involved in the going-ons around a paradise metropolis. They could be a mercenary faction, pirates, a government group sent to eliminate crime, etc.))

Spoiler: Intro 3 - Frontier (click to show/hide)

   Life on the frontier is rough and filled with dangers. Only the bravest of pioneers can survive the conditions and find a place to call home. Corporations and governments scramble to colonize new worlds, asteroids, and more, as well as find alien artifacts, and ward off their corporate or political enemies. This of course, does not make life too easy for the pioneers. The frontier is a battlezone, filled with planets rich with minerals, deadly creatures, cutthroats, and more. Of course, this doesn't bother you, as you step onto a frontier hub station. But more specifically, what purpose do you have, causing you to brave the frontier?

((Frontier is basically a superlarge group of mostly habitable, uncolonized worlds, being explored by pioneers, corporations, and governments, and littered with alien artifacts and ancient ruins. Large amount of warfare between the entities. Players can be any group involved with the frontier they want.))

On another note, what do people think of an XP+Rank System (e.g. "Private", etc) based on kills, recovered tech, and maybe other things furthering the mission?

EDIT: Somehow didn't notice the double post. Oops.
EDIT2: Added some more possible intros.

[Mesa]

So recently I've been thinking about making one of two games (since SDG is basically just checking if people are making their turns and updating the main post, so the maintenance with that one is minimal):

• A sci-fi game in which the galaxy (which may or may not be Milky Way) has been conquered by a more powerful alien race and pretty much all once-civilized planets have been turned into force-field protected slave worlds (Gothic's Valley of the Mines...IN SPACE!). The player (or players) finds themselves on one such world, with a single urge...To escape.
• A fantasy-ish game which is in essence a glorified Tree Spirit challenge from Mynekraft. Or, in other words: you are a dryad/tree spirit/an elf and have to protect your tree and let it grow. Potential for some fancy stuff later on, I suppose.

Both would be TSGs/ASGs with little to no mechanics because whenever those come up my games just spiral into ruin, no matter how complex or simple they might be.

* DarkDXZ shrugs

(Ideas, suggestions and just simple "votes" are more than welcome.)

[Parsely]

Do the tree! That's interesting and new. c:

[sjm9876]

Thinking of a game where the player(s?) take on the role of undead.
4 stats, each of which functions as HP too, (two types of HP, Phys and Mag)

Physical:
Flesh: Determines Phys Attack, weak to Cutting.
Bone: Determines Phys Def, weak to Bashing.
Magical:
Blood: Determines Mag Attack, weak to Soul Magic.
Soul: Determines Mag Def, weak to Blood Magic.

Magic/Physical damage is split between the two appropriate stats, but deals more damage to the weak stat. If that makes sense.

Each undead is missing something, and so has a 'null stat', which has no points, and can survive without the points in. this gives certain benefits?
Flesh: Immune to status conditions
Bone: Incorporeal
Blood: Unnoticed by mundane mortals
Spirit: Only die if a stat hits -5 rather than 0.

Being undead, stats can be leached from mortals.

Oh, and a quick intro thing I knocked up some time ago for a similar themed idea:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Location: St. Dunstan Church, London - desanctified.

The night is young, and the skies are clear. A full moon illuminates leaves that rustle gently in a chill breeze. And on the breeze, comes a whisper.

’Just open the casket already. I can hardly do it, can I?’
’Oh. Okay.’

A crash echoes around the graveyard, coming from a lone crypt.

’Not like that you idiot. You have less brains than me, and I don’t even have a brain!’

A spectral figure looks down upon the stone casket, it’s lid snapped cleanly in two. Besides the scene stands a more solid character, from whom an odour of decay emanates. Dust rises from the wreckage as a skeletal hand pokes through, swiftly followed by the remainder of it’s body.

’Really Malthar, is the best hired help you can find. If I had a nose I’d be able to smell him. It is a him, yes?
’Don’t speak to me like that Maggie. I’ve haunted these parts since long before you were even born.’
’Bollocks. Not only did I rule this country, you rose when I did, when this place was desanctified by that…..scrawl.’

The skeleton steps from the crypt, gesturing towards it’s outside wall as it does so. On the surface is a strange sign in fluorescent orange spray paint, consisting of two circles on either side of the base of a long upright.

’Kids these nights.’
’Tsk. That’s what your religion did for this country. In my day, we would have sacrificed the runt -’
’But then he’d be joining us here now -’
’Te-’
’Shush, corpse. He wouldn’t be joining us, because his soul would have been eaten by the wild hunt and -’
’And in all my nights, I have yet to see this legendary -’
’Temp-’
’Silence meatbag! And i have yet to see your famous Jesus either.

A hush falls as the skeleton fails to respond. Instead, it stares through the ghost, fixed rigid, as the zombie speaks.

’Templar.’

The spirit spins round, only to find the nozzle of a strange device pointed at it. A click sounds, and it is drawn into the contraption, a strange goo deposited into a jar on the other end. the skeleton turns to flee, and is greeted by a silver headed hammer to the skull, shattering it into pieces. A shining blade cuts through the neck of the shambling corpse, whose head rolls to the floor. It stares forlornly into the distance as the assailants vanish into the night with it’s body.

’Idiots...’


Location: A small english coastal town, the local graveyard - temporarily desanctified.

A sea breeze floats up from the sea. It carries with it the smell of salt and decaying fish, making the curator of the local museum wrinkle his nose. It drifts past the grocers and butchers and the post office, and up to the cemetery, making the sleeping drunk curl up into a ball. A damp patch spread in the earth besides one of the headstones, a stain of clear disrespect that will be gone by morning. But for now, it seeps into the ground, and makes it a little less holy for the time being at least. The stain spreads back over the town, unhindered by the wind, and for this one night, the dead stir once more.

[Parsely]

I need to make this better:

Chris Redfield
Squad Skills
Leadership 5.00
Tactics 4.00


Agent Skills
Operations
Investigation 2.00
Medicine 2.00

Combat
Handg 5.00
Magnm 3.00
SMach 1.00
AsltR 3.00
Shotg 5.00
Marks 5.00
Lnchr 2.00
Thrwn 3.00
Melee 5.00

---

I need to make the operations skills cover everything generally. Less than 10 skills total is preferred. I also need to figure out a stat system for weapons and how that would work with the combat skills.

[Nerjin]

I have quite a bit to say about that Gun, give me a moment to gather my thoughts and I shall share them.

[Nerjin]

I need to make this better:

Alrighty then, I shall comment on what you have and then go into what you wanted to add.

Chris Redfield

Actually, are you making all the characters or do the players get to make their own? I’m not aware of if you’ve made this game yet but I’m somewhat curious about that.

Squad Skills
Leadership 5.00
Tactics 4.00

What does tactics do that leadership doesn’t do? If you ask me if seems like Leadership and Tactics should be one and the same. Plus you can put it into Agent Skills to make it less expansive [Which sounds bad at first, but you should shoot for every skill being useful than a bunch of skills that are just sitting around.]

Agent Skills
Operations
Investigation 2.00
Medicine 2.00

Sounds good to me. Though is Investigation going to be a huge part of the game? Just a thought as it seems to be based on Biohazard/Resident Evil.

Combat
Handg 5.00
Magnm 3.00

Two things, don’t abbreviate things on the character sheet. It makes it hard to understand what you’re talking about. At least, don’t do it on the first character sheet in the OP so everyone can kinda get what you’re saying. Secondly, Magnums are just larger caliber handguns. They use different ammo but the principle operation is the same I would think. Merge this with handgun to condense the list. There is another reason, but I’ll get to that after the next quote because it applies there too.

SMach 1.00
AsltR 3.00

What are these? Sub-Machine Gun and Assault Rifle maybe? If so, merge them into the “Automatics” category. As with the above they share many characteristics [though less, I will admit] but have different ammo types. But why merge them then? Well, as well as the characteristics it gives the player more choice. If I start pumping points into SMach [SMG might be a better abbreviation as that is a super common one], then I can never use AsltR because “Hey, I have too many points there.” Despite both of them filling the same type of role in a firefight [suppression]. Maybe that’s a weak point, but I feel it might be better to the game overall.

Shotg 5.00

Seems fine to me. Nothing to really say.

Marks 5.00 [Marksmanship I suppose. I would call it Sniper instead, since it appears to be more geared towards Single Shot rifles. But see my afterward for that.]

Should probably be called Sniper, since it appears to be geared more towards that brand of rifles.  But I like the term Marksman, so we’re gonna keep that for the afterward.

Lnchr 2.00

Hm... Not sure if a rocket launcher will come up enough to really warrant an entire stat for it. Imagine if a fantasy game had stats for Fire Magic, Water Magic, Earth Magic, Wind Magic, Healing Magic, Summoning, and then Black Hole [a one off spell that costs thousands of gold to use. I dunno, seems like sinking points into this would be a bad idea. BUT there should be a skill for them… Hm… In 4 and 5 the Rocket Launchers are scoped… Let’s put it in with Sniper as it uses a single powerful shot. I’m just gonna skip the other two skills because they seem fine.

I need to make the operations skills cover everything generally. Less than 10 skills total is preferred. I also need to figure out a stat system for weapons and how that would work with the combat skills.

Well if I did this right the new sheet should look something like this.

Chris Redfield
Agent Skills
Leadership 5.00 [I don’t know what this would do really. That’s up to you.
Marksman 4.00 [Increases accuracy with all ranged weapons.]
Investigation 2.00 [It’s up to you]
Medicine 2.00 [Increases benefits with healing items]

Combat Skills
Handg 8.00 [Increases skill with Handguns and Magnums]
Automatics 4.00 [Increases skill with SMGs, Assault Rifles, and Machine Guns]
Shotg 5.00 [Increases skill with Shotguns]
Sniper 7.00 [Increases skill with Scoped weapons such as Rifles and Rocket Launcher]
Thrown 3.00 [Increases skill with Grenades, Mines, and other Miscellaneous thrown items]
Melee 5.00 [Increases skill with weapons such as Knives, Chairs, Bottles, Cattle Prods, and unarmed attacks]

So that’s my idea on it. As for the weapon stuff I’m going to assume this is turned based combat that relies on action points [Similar to Fallout or Left 4 Dead: Back 4 More as those are the systems I like best. If this is not the sort of system you use, get back to me and I’ll try to think up something better for your game.]
 

Type: (Skill) [list the skill needed to wield it. Shotgun, Handgun, Automatic, etc. If you’d like you could also have each weapon require a certain amount of skill to use. Obviously Accuracy would have a lot to do with your level of skill and the amount of points you have in Marksman.]
Range: Min/Max [The ranges that this weapon is capable of operating at.
Firepower: # [How much damage the weapon deals per shot]
Rate of Fire: #/#AP [How many shots you can use per amount of AP.]
Clip Size: #/# Ammo [How many shots are left in the clip. Also shows what ammo type it uses.]
Reload Cost: #/#AP [How much it costs to reload the gun to full Clip Size]
Piercing: # [The amount of targets the bullet will go through before it becomes useless.]
Special: Blah blah blah [Whatever special thing needs to be kept in mind with this weapon.]
Size: X,Y [How much space it takes in your attaché case. Shown as Horizontel spaces vs Vertical. Not sure if you’re using  that system however.]

Description: A quick description of the weapon. About a sentence or two I would think.

Let’s make two quick guns. A shotgun and a SMG. Just to get the full effect. First the shotgun.

Type: Shotgun
Range: 1/10
Firepower: 35
Rate of Fire: 1/AP
Clip Size: 2/2 Shotgun Shells
Reload Cost: 1AP* [Not the Asterisk, this means to check Special]
Piercing: 3
Special:
Shotgun – This weapon loses 1/7 [-5] of its Firepower per each square its shot goes.
Tubed Reload – This weapon reloads 1 ammo at a time.
Small Gun – This weapon is small enough that it allows the user to move a little more per turn.
Size: 6,3

Description: A common double barreled shotgun that has had its stock and most of the barrel sawn off. Never leave home without it.

Type: Automatic
Range: 1/25
Firepower: 3
Rate of Fire: 5/AP
Clip Size: 25/25 SMG Rounds
Reload Cost: 1AP
Piercing: 0
Special:
Small Gun – This weapon is small enough that it allows the user to move a little more per turn.
Size: 4,3

Description: One of the most well known submachine guns in the world the Uzi combines easy handling with a high rate of fire. Its high rate of fire eats through ammunition however.

And I’m sure I’m missing something but those are my thoughts so far. I’d be willing to help you work on this system a bit more if you need to.
[/list]

[Mesa]

So unfortunately I don't think that the dryad game is going to happen (:C), but here's another concept I had.

If anyone here follows my Gun Francisco project, you may know that I tried to do a suggestion game based in that universe.
But it failed. Rather horribly.

And the following concept may as well fail even harder, but HEY, why NOT?


Basically, it would be a multiplayer vs. strategy/tactical(-ish) game, with 3 (humans, frogs, birds) teams of 3 players, taking place on this WIP map, with the simple purpose of smashing the opposition.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(The map seems fairly self-explanatory - omegas represent cities of varying sizes and colors determine the team)

All teams start out in their respective cities (which would have some witty names, naturally; the city in the middle is of course Gun Francisco, even though the geography of its area does not look anywhere near like that map. ) and after negotiating can do the following (probably by sending a PM to me by someone from their team):

- move their vehicle (convoy/fortress/airship) and all that is on it (weapons/ammunition/troops) and possibly meet another vehicle/attack a city
- purchase weapons/upgrades/ammunition (with ammunition) at a city
- evolve a mutation for their troops (which costs mutagen; more about that later)
- build another vehicle (which costs ammunition, mutagen and can only be done at a 2x2 city)
- split resources between vehicles
- possibly something else I've forgotten about


If two teams are about to meet (either in a city or off-road as two vehicles), a battle begins, which uses some-sorta turn-based roll-based system (which is gonna be fairly minimalistic to keep things tight and easy). During battles all players of the participating teams play (and possibly control multiple characters at once to make the action interesting).

In combat players can move, attack, dodge roll (which prevents shooting but provides a quick burst of speed and a (fairly high) chance to avoid incoming attacks), change and reload weapons and make use of their passive mutations. (I wish I could incorporate jumping into this but unfortunately I can't...) :/
When one player dies, they get to pick another mutant from their local "pool" until it's completely depleted in which case the other team wins and gets to get their weapons and ammunition.


(I've done a few posts about weapons in the GF thread and the overall system should remain the same in this game ie. three primaries (SMGs/shotgun/bow), three melees (chainsaw/harpoon/sledgehammer) and three explosives (missiles/grenades/mines). With some adaptations to a forum game system.)


Overall goal is a game that's big, fun and yet manageable for me to...well, manage. So it needs to be relatively simplistic mechanically.
So any help in relation to that would be more than appreciated.

(I'm pretty sure that my post is missing something...)

[Parsely]

<3 you Nerj.

Actually, are you making all the characters or do the players get to make their own? I’m not aware of if you’ve made this game yet but I’m somewhat curious about that.

What does tactics do that leadership doesn’t do? If you ask me if seems like Leadership and Tactics should be one and the same. Plus you can put it into Agent Skills to make it less expansive [Which sounds bad at first, but you should shoot for every skill being useful than a bunch of skills that are just sitting around.]

Sounds good to me. Though is Investigation going to be a huge part of the game? Just a thought as it seems to be based on Biohazard/Resident Evil.

Two things, don’t abbreviate things on the character sheet. It makes it hard to understand what you’re talking about. At least, don’t do it on the first character sheet in the OP so everyone can kinda get what you’re saying. Secondly, Magnums are just larger caliber handguns. They use different ammo but the principle operation is the same I would think. Merge this with handgun to condense the list. There is another reason, but I’ll get to that after the next quote because it applies there too.

What are these? Sub-Machine Gun and Assault Rifle maybe? If so, merge them into the “Automatics” category. As with the above they share many characteristics [though less, I will admit] but have different ammo types. But why merge them then? Well, as well as the characteristics it gives the player more choice. If I start pumping points into SMach [SMG might be a better abbreviation as that is a super common one], then I can never use AsltR because “Hey, I have too many points there.” Despite both of them filling the same type of role in a firefight [suppression]. Maybe that’s a weak point, but I feel it might be better to the game overall.

Should probably be called Sniper, since it appears to be geared more towards that brand of rifles.  But I like the term Marksman, so we’re gonna keep that for the afterward.

Hm... Not sure if a rocket launcher will come up enough to really warrant an entire stat for it. Imagine if a fantasy game had stats for Fire Magic, Water Magic, Earth Magic, Wind Magic, Healing Magic, Summoning, and then Black Hole [a one off spell that costs thousands of gold to use. I dunno, seems like sinking points into this would be a bad idea. BUT there should be a skill for them… Hm… In 4 and 5 the Rocket Launchers are scoped… Let’s put it in with Sniper as it uses a single powerful shot. I’m just gonna skip the other two skills because they seem fine.

So that’s my idea on it. As for the weapon stuff I’m going to assume this is turned based combat that relies on action points [Similar to Fallout or Left 4 Dead: Back 4 More as those are the systems I like best. If this is not the sort of system you use, get back to me and I’ll try to think up something better for your game.]
 

Type: (Skill) [list the skill needed to wield it. Shotgun, Handgun, Automatic, etc. If you’d like you could also have each weapon require a certain amount of skill to use. Obviously Accuracy would have a lot to do with your level of skill and the amount of points you have in Marksman.]
Range: Min/Max [The ranges that this weapon is capable of operating at.
Firepower: # [How much damage the weapon deals per shot]
Rate of Fire: #/#AP [How many shots you can use per amount of AP.]
Clip Size: #/# Ammo [How many shots are left in the clip. Also shows what ammo type it uses.]
Reload Cost: #/#AP [How much it costs to reload the gun to full Clip Size]
Piercing: # [The amount of targets the bullet will go through before it becomes useless.]
Special: Blah blah blah [Whatever special thing needs to be kept in mind with this weapon.]
Size: X,Y [How much space it takes in your attaché case. Shown as Horizontel spaces vs Vertical. Not sure if you’re using  that system however.]

Description: A quick description of the weapon. About a sentence or two I would think.

This isn't a character sheet, these are stats for an agent in a suggestion game that I'm currently running. So yeah, I'm generating these myself. Think X-COM BTW.

This is probably where I should've been more clear: Operations skills affect the performance of the units that you send to handle large-scale conflicts, so when you attach Chris Redfield to Special Operations Unit x*, they gain these skills. Agent skills are personal stats which come into play when you're doing smaller scale stuff in the vein of RE1-5, where you've got a single highly skilled operative or pair being sent to investigate. Less destroying B.O.W.s and more gathering evidence to bring down the pharmaceutical megacorps behind them. Leadership would represent Chris' ability to rally the men, inspire them, make sure they follow orders, etc. Chris' knowledge of Tactics would grant the troopers some natural insight into the concept, meaning they'd better understand where to position themselves advantageously.

Investigation will be HUGE. You can stop B.O.W.s by shooting them, but they'll just keep being bought by terrorists. You need Agents with solid detective skills to gather the sort of information you need to track the source, and stop companies like Umbrella from supplying terrorists and creating such destructive weapons. That's the whole point of the BSAA in the games.

Relax, it's for my benefit. I thought you'd infer that. And even if I left it that way, I'd be sure to have a legend available. Also, sticking with the theme (Resident Evil) I'm going to separate them because Magnums are crazy powerful. They're literally more destructive than some explosives.

This isn't a traditional RPG-style point system. You increase stats through training and usage. The initial values are mean to denote affinity. And as a matter of fact submachine guns fill a radically different role than assault rifles. It's kind of why they have a different name, buddy. c:

"Marks" is short for "Marksman Weapon," this covers actual sniper's rifles, as well as DMRs and the like. I prefer it.

"Launcher" covers shoulder-launchers, grenades launchers, possibly some special weapons. It's fine imho.

It's not. I don't like AP because it's too hard to keep track of, and I prefer dice. I won't be using images or maps anyways and those would likely be required if I used that system. Also, no attaché case, you just deploy and carry whatever is reasonable. Suggestion games are chill like that.

*As in the variable. Like in algebra.[/list]

[Nerjin]

Well then I'm sorta out of my element. Free-form-esque games aren't my style so I don't really know what works with them. I'm more of a rigid system kinda guy because I find having rules makes the game run far more smoothly than "Eh, this sems reasonable" so... Yeah.

Though I do take some issue with the Assault Rifle vs SMG thing you said. They seem, to me, to fill a similar battle-field role. But that's just my opinion.

[Parsely]

Well then I'm sorta out of my element. Free-form-esque games aren't my style so I don't really know what works with them. I'm more of a rigid system kinda guy because I find having rules makes the game run far more smoothly than "Eh, this sems reasonable" so... Yeah.

Well the numbers come in during the Agent sections, which is where it becomes more like a game with players. I'm just having trouble making the numbers mean something, which is generally why I avoid those kinds of games, but I want the personal combat to be much more rigid as you said. I want a combat system that works with 1-2 PCs against a host of enemies. I want stats so players can see a measurable benefit to the TSG half of the game, as well as a set for weapons affinity and combat. I want the guns to have stats themselves as well so players can swap them and tune them and equip the Agents because that's fun! I want the enemies to have easy but flexible stats so updates don't take forever but the bad guys are still interesting to fight.

[Rolepgeek]

Two things. Why would magnums and handguns be in separate categories, but grenade launchers and rocket launchers be in the same one?

And two, assault rifles and sub-machine guns fill a vaguely similar battlefield role. Assault rifles were a compromise between true/bolt-action rifles and sub-machines guns meant to be effective at a distance up to 400 meters, since that's where most firefights were taking place in, yet still be capable of automatic fire, and easily carried by basic infantry. Rifles were at peak effectiveness compared to other weapons at over 1000+ meters, and sub-machines guns were rarely effective past perhaps 200 meters.