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How many outfits are we going to have (in the name of Science)?

1: NC
2: NC and TR
3: NC, TR and Vanu

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Author Topic: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.  (Read 1131934 times)

Sonlirain

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11685 on: June 01, 2015, 05:50:08 am »

SMGs absolutely murder LMGs at close range. They have 900 rpm. Additionally they are used by infiltrators and LA's that should get a drop on a HA.
If an average HA could notice he got plunked in the back of his head and still had the ability to turn around and kill whoever attacked him then it would be an obvious case of HA being overpowered.

If a LA rolls through the corner and meets a HA face to face that's teh LA's fault. But htey can still win if htey have an SMG bullet hose on them...
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darkrider2

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11686 on: June 01, 2015, 01:30:23 pm »

I'm tired of hearing that LA is a viable or equivalently powerful AI class due to its mobility. As much as I want it to be true, and I've played LA a LOT, it simply isn't. Maybe in any other game that jetpack would be a big deal, but the nature of planetside 2 works against the LA.

A) Any battle that's more than 48 v 48 you can expect to have extreme difficulty jetpacking anywhere useful, period. There's so many players that every conceivable route towards any of the capture points is going to be observed and guarded. I only ever pull LA on tower bases and biolabs for the reason below.

B) Level design. There is no cover on the tops of buildings. Most bases have very little if any verticality. Large battles always devolve into progression through chokepoints, making mobility pointless, and to no-one's surprise HA is best at dealing with chokepoints (it used to be MAX-units but HA counters MAX so hard that the MAX-rush tactic has fallen out of use completely). Even in bases that provide alternate routes around chokepoints, the battlefield is simply so crowded that any and every path is a guarded chokepoint at all times.

C) You don't get to carry piles of medkits like the HA because you're carrying C4, and since you're flying around you'll never be near medics. As an LA carrying C4 is practically mandatory, it's your only counter to MAX units and vehicles. HA on the other hand, can rocket vehicles, and rocket + anti-MAX grenade enemy MAX units, in addition to being able to instantly heal himself to full health four times. (also, we should petition for DBgames to rename the anti-vehicle grenade to anti-MAX grenade :3)

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SMGs absolutely murder LMGs at close range. They have 900 rpm.
D) SMGs have a quicker time-to-kill over LMGs, but not enough to negate a heavy shield that just up and gives them +60% health. Carbines on the other hand are strictly inferior to LMGs.

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Additionally they are used by infiltrators and LA's that should get a drop on a HA.
E) Fantasy scenario (see A & B above, F below). Even in the situation that you successfully get the drop on an HA and kill him, shield or no shield, you will be murdered in short order by the other ten players standing around, the battlefield is too crowded for "get the drop on" to be a viable argument in anything but small fights. Don't even get me started on how small fights are dominated by 'mlg' outfits, further forcing the average joe player into big brawls lest he be absolutely useless against these absurdly skilled players.

F) You will never have the element of suprise (as LA) if there are any motion sensors around, ever, and for some reason the HA can use the crossbow with its sensor dart, further alienating "get the drop on" from the reality of planetside 2. If you play on emerald and have ever went to a fight against vanu you know just how bad the sensor dart spam gets.

The arguments in favor of LA/infil are the same ones that would make sense if this were a 12 v 12 team deathmatch game, and they would certainly apply if the mobility classes had room to breathe. But this is planetside 2, where mobility is the equivalent of being a TF2 scout and every pathway has an engineer turret on it.

I have 1000+ hours in this game, over 15% of that is LA. I absolutely love the light assault class, but I refuse to use LA if it's not a tower/biolab.



TL;DR - mobility is not an argument in favor of the LA class because battles are so crowded with players that the mobility is rendered moot.

And regarding the HA, basically everything @kanil said.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 01:43:40 pm by darkrider2 »
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Ozyton

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11687 on: June 01, 2015, 02:10:01 pm »

Honestly I wouldn't say the LA has more mobility than other classes, moreso they have access to alternate routes into certain bases. Problem is, even once you're inside you're pretty much on your own up against dozens of enemies with no support, and the jetpacks are too slow to use for dodging stuff (which I would classify as mobility). You do get access to some neat ambushing spots but that's not likely to win capture points.

No one thing about heavy is overpowered, but that they can do all these things at once is ridiculous. The best AI class shouldn't be the best AV class at the same time.
This is a similar argument to how people feel about ESF's, how they can carry both anti-ground weapons and anti-air weapons controlled by the same player. If anything, the Valkryie should get forward fixed weapons that are controlled by the pilot in addition to the turret mounted on the bottom, leave ESF's to pick a loadout and decide what role they're going to play (further enhanced by being able to change loadouts from vehicle pads maybe, I mean, infantry can do it). Even MBTs and battle buses require multiple people to man every gun at once (and liberators, even though solo libs do exist to an extent).

In a team based game, giving so much versatility to a single person removes the need to have support classes. I feel pretty useless as a medic when everybody runs around with four insta-heal pens. Vehicles should be the Heavies' main focus with their rocket launchers, not LA's with C4. I always felt medics should get carbines due to their support role (right now they're classified as medium assaults) and heavies should get AR's and LMGs. I always imagined LMGs would be a bit more akin to the 'heavy' weapons and be a bit more of an infantry support role than CQB headshot machines with huge magazines... but like I said in an earlier post, it'd kinda shift the way the game plays and probably become unrecognizable. Add more options for the ultility slot for all classes so not everyone is running around with C4 or medic pens, perhaps add a disposable M136-like weapon, or a deployable of some description.

Sonlirain

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11688 on: June 01, 2015, 02:26:05 pm »

HA are the frontline troops. They are expcted to appear in high numbers and have the advantage when taking on other infantry head on.
Light assaults are pussposed to go where heavies can't and flank (and dive bomb with C4 killing every infantry, MAX and non shielded sunderer in one swoop).
Medics are supposed to keep everyone alive.
Engineers are supposed to keep everyone stocked up on ammo and keep the vehicles running.
Infitrators abuse their magic cloaky fields and assasinate everyone while spamming motion sensors everywhere.

What in your opinion could bring balance to the game?
Removing motion sensors and limitng them to vehicle mounted radars only perhaps?

I think Battlefield 2142 did the LMG thing right. To have the LMG fire accurately you have to crouch or even better lie prone... and the LMG got more accurate the more you shot instead of getting less accurate (note the LMGs also could overheat so you couldn't just dump an entire mag) this along with a buff to LMG damage could turn the HA into a more stationary class rather than a run and gunner... but then again that's no longer an assault then ain't it?
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zombat

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11689 on: June 01, 2015, 04:58:48 pm »

I miss BF2142, it was the pinnacle of the battlefield series. It just got so many things right.
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MasterFancyPants

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11690 on: June 01, 2015, 11:07:11 pm »

Unfortunately, the HA isn't likely to see any major changes. SOE has always pandered to the "MLG" crowd in PS2. Which all love HA.
Take a look at "roles" for the highest ranked outfits:
Notice a trend? Heavy Assault.

IMO 3 things need to happen.
1. HA shield needs a .5 second start delay.
2. Rockets should be removed from HA and given to Engie.
3. Bases need to stop being designed as a series of choke points which directly feed into HA's play style.
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Ozyton

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11691 on: June 01, 2015, 11:47:39 pm »

If rockets were moved from heavy to engineer, don't you think that'd give the engineer quite a lot of tools? He already has a turret, ammo pack (unlimited rockets anyone?), and repair tool to contend with plus mines if he's a half decent engie... stacking a rocket launcher on top would be rather cumbersome. There have been many suggestions regarding the HA shield including start-up time, but one of the better ones IMO was to have them behave a bit more like the NC MAX's riot shield in that it'd only face a single direction instead of face every direction (and similar things have been suggested for vanguard shield as well).

I can't say too much for base design other than there are quite a few choke points. Having more objectives than simply "capture the one point on this base but you have to get through 94+ people sitting at this doorway first" would be nice. As an infantry player I also often find myself 'farmed' by people who use vehicles, and it's not like I can go to the previous base and pull my own unless a full squad or platoon decided to do the same thing.

Kanil

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11692 on: June 02, 2015, 12:44:47 am »

SMGs absolutely murder LMGs at close range.
I was referring to a situation where the heavy is moving towards an objective and thus does not wish to slow itself with shield... so, probably a long range fight, where SMGs don't exactly excel. If you're having a short range fight with an infiltrator, most of the time you're already at the objective, and can activate your shield -- that'll help offset your weapon deficiency somewhat.

I miss BF2142, it was the pinnacle of the battlefield series. It just got so many things right.
Absolutely. Everyone needs a little turret buddy to float around behind their ESF going "pew pew pew, I'm helping!" Also underbarrel rocket launchers ftw.
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Skyrunner

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11693 on: June 02, 2015, 03:34:46 am »

Unfortunately, the HA isn't likely to see any major changes. SOE has always pandered to the "MLG" crowd in PS2. Which all love HA.
Take a look at "roles" for the highest ranked outfits:
Notice a trend? Heavy Assault.

IMO 3 things need to happen.
1. HA shield needs a .5 second start delay.
2. Rockets should be removed from HA and given to Engie.
3. Bases need to stop being designed as a series of choke points which directly feed into HA's play style.
Problem is... the stats you linked me also show me a fairly high number of engies. Giving the rockets to engies probably won't help either.
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Kanil

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11694 on: June 02, 2015, 03:40:18 am »

More than a few of them probably engineer as vehicle pilots.
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Sonlirain

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11695 on: June 02, 2015, 03:40:50 am »

SMGs absolutely murder LMGs at close range.
I was referring to a situation where the heavy is moving towards an objective and thus does not wish to slow itself with shield... so, probably a long range fight, where SMGs don't exactly excel. If you're having a short range fight with an infiltrator, most of the time you're already at the objective, and can activate your shield -- that'll help offset your weapon deficiency somewhat.

I miss BF2142, it was the pinnacle of the battlefield series. It just got so many things right.
Absolutely. Everyone needs a little turret buddy to float around behind their ESF going "pew pew pew, I'm helping!" Also underbarrel rocket launchers ftw.

Hah yeah the rocket launchers were the bestand better still you coud set them to explode midair. Campers absolutely hated them and the prevented stalemates. But personally i liked the engies ability to put a motion sensor on any vehicle. especially  letal with the APC and its mortar.
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Aklyon

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11696 on: June 02, 2015, 09:28:33 am »

More than a few of them probably engineer as vehicle pilots.
It would be more surprising if they didn't, I'd think.
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Facekillz058

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11697 on: June 04, 2015, 05:42:01 pm »

In case anyone here cares, Planetside 2 is coming to PS4 on the 23rd.
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sambojin

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11698 on: June 04, 2015, 06:03:35 pm »

Will it be on the PC servers? ie: Will PC players and PS4 players be battling each other?

(insert master race comments here. And the gamepad vs mouse/keyboard thing)
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Sonlirain

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Re: Planetside 2: Free-to-Play MMOFPS. 2000 players/server.
« Reply #11699 on: June 04, 2015, 06:13:54 pm »

Will it be on the PC servers? ie: Will PC players and PS4 players be battling each other?

Absolutely not. it never ever works.
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