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1: NC

2: NC and TR

3: NC, TR and Vanu

[Flying Dice]

So let me get this straight: You don't want realism because having your view shake as infantry when you're being bombarded by rockets is distracting, but you do want realism because these aircraft from centuries in the future are clearly equivalent to contemporary fighter aircraft. Let me ask you this, honestly: How much time do you spend piloting an ESF against enemy ground without any friendly air nearby? Because it is most certainly a risky proposition, especially in a relatively uncerted fighter (no flares, upgraded armor, or regenerating health). I've spent something like 6 hours already in the cockpit of my Scythe, and almost none of my deaths have been from enemy fighters. The majority come from when I've doing a strafing run and don't notice an AA Max, or someone pops a lockon rocket at me/hops into an AA turret at the right moment.

Which further illustrates this point: the issue isn't entirely attributable to "lol aircraft op nerf pls", but that the current availability of AA equipment doesn't match the availability of aircraft. This will become less of a problem over time as people cert into AA. IOW: One AA launcher/Max is perfectly fine against one ESF, but not against the zerg hordes of 10-15+ aircraft you see at major battles, and there generally aren't enough people with the gear or willingness to match the number of aircraft with a similar amount of AA. It's sort of like how an anti-armor action would go in this stage of the game if the blindfire rocket launcher and an effective anti-armor cannon for your MBT had to be unlocked.


I had some fun with bugs as well today, particularly the one that got my lockon telltale permanently activated in my Scythe, so that I could only tell if there was an actual enemy lock if I heard the missile behind me. 

[Jelle]

It's not such a huge problem as it's made out to be, yes air counters air, with a specific loadout. An air unit hunting other air units will not nearly be as effective vs ground targets.

What I do agree with is that the lack of anti air weaponry for armor and infantry for starting players, wich is pretty problematic. Where a heavy infantry can fight armor right of the bat there is simply no easy accessible method for ground to air. Sure you can diversify the amount of weapons through creds you can counter something with, e.g. vs armor anti tank mines, but at least there needs to be something basic in place in all the playing fields right from the start.

[Knight of Fools]

The best solution, in my opinion, is making small arms fire more effective against all aircraft.

I keep referring to BF2 as the model they should pattern their aircraft after, but the balance between air, infantry, and armor in that game was superb. In PS2, all you have to do is hop in a Liberator and suddenly a massive portion of the current infantry and armor on the ground can't do a thing against you. It's kinda silly.

[miauw62]

Now it's really like playing paper rock scissors where scissors beats everything and is only beaten by scissors.

[nenjin]

The best solution, in my opinion, is making small arms fire more effective against all aircraft.

I keep referring to BF2 as the model they should pattern their aircraft after, but the balance between air, infantry, and armor in that game was superb. In PS2, all you have to do is hop in a Liberator and suddenly a massive portion of the current infantry and armor on the ground can't do a thing against you. It's kinda silly.

It's true, BF2 had the most sublime vehicle balance out there. Hated BC2 where you could unload a player-carried HMG against a transport heli and it would be all "LOL! NOPE!". Or how attack choppers with wafer thin aluminum on the side could just soak up bullets while they hovered 2 feet off the ground and raped an entire team.

They moved the slider back the other direction in BF3 but small arms are still generally worth nothing against aircraft. I really liked BF2 in that regard simply because there were very few times you were well and truly fucked as infantry. Even if i'm not going to survive the encounter, at least let me do a speck of damage to the guy that's pillaging me.

[Neyvn]

So let me get this straight: You don't want realism because having your view shake as infantry when you're being bombarded by rockets is distracting, but you do want realism because these aircraft from centuries in the future are clearly equivalent to contemporary fighter aircraft.

Realism isn't the right word to use there mate. The right word I would use is Balance...

For Example...
If one ESF could shoot at a Burster Max, disrupting his Aim due to the explosions throwing him around which causes at minimum 1/5 shots to miss (Regardless of Skill level) while every shot from the Burster Max hits the aircraft and does little in the way of causing any problem to the pilot despite the HUGE Explosive graphics that occur when the Flak hits the craft, leaving the pilot the ability to empty a Rocket Pod with Perfect and uninterrupted accuracy due to either Zoom or Thermal Scopes...

Then the Balance between the ideas of Screen Shake and what causes it falters. No matter how advanced any Research and Development is into that of the ESF (fictional or possible fact) its ability to take explosions to the face and be fine is not balanced...

Then there is the difference between Tanks screenshake and that of ESF Screenshake. A Tank can have Screenshakes from Impacts of Blasts while once again an ESF is Unaffected...

There has no TRUE Balance between all Three different kinds of Play done when it comes to the ESF at all...

[Flying Dice]

See, I just plain don't agree with you there. It would be fairly balanced if the following two things were true: Small-arms fire could cause noticeable damage to aircraft and there was a dedicated AA infantry weapon available from the start. By the by, I hope you don't really think that an ESF pilot can instantly identify a burster Max and volley FFARs (let's be honest, that's essentially what they are) at it within a few seconds. That's not how it works, if you've ever done runs on infantry. The only instantly obvious AA are the phalanx turrets and enemy ESFs; burster Maxes, AA Lightings, and HAs with AA launchers aren't noticeable until they're shooting at you, at which point you're probably already at 2/3 health or less unless they're idiots and tried to snipe you from a kilometer away.

Speaking from personal experience here: AvG is balanced when you have 1-2 AA weapons for each ESF. By a similar token, though the Lib does need some armor reduction, it makes sense that it's weakest against ESFs with an AA loadout; that's how bombers work, by flying high enough that the only thing that can really hurt them is an interceptor. Granted, it should probably also cost more resources and have a longer cooldown, to prevent the occasional swarms of them that you see at major zerg sites.

[Micro102]

O great, I just found out I didnt actually get my station cash and other alpha squad stuff. Ticket time.

[Vactor]

And yet, it is a rare that i see anyone hop into a sunderer turret to drive off enemy aircraft.  When I do this i usually can swap between turrets during reloads because nobody else ever does it.

Sunderers are the entry level players counter to aircraft.

[Neyvn]

As I said, EXAMPLE...

An ESF can take damage from all numbers of things and are never effected by them. Not even Fire from another ESF disrupts their aim unless the pilot panics. The ability for a calm pilot to have continuous accuracy at all times even when under fire from any number of things makes the ability of an ESF to be higher then even a MBT...

An ESF firing on an active AA Turret is never bothered, I personally have taken down an AA Turret that was shooting at me from the start without even wavering cause I knew that no matter what I could continue firing on it without much worry because the combination of One Rocketpod Volley and then One Rotary Volley would kill it without problems and leave me with 1/4 Health, enough to escape and repair. And due to the limit of both angle and lack of any other player out there playing AA, I could escape with great ease...

Now if while under that fire from the AA Turret I lost aim due to screenshake, I would NOT have been able to take it down...

[Gabeux]

Hmm, I made my char on Waterson, NC.
Any B12 outfits there?

-> Name's Gabeux, if anyone can invite.

[Flying Dice]

Hooked up with a platoon on Matterson this afternoon. Who says the TR are the only ones who get glorious charges?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think there were something like 8 TR tanks and a couple Mossies, plus around three squads worth of infantry defending. We still took it. I think that they need to add a 10-cert "whistle" weapon for squad leaders if we're going to be charging across open ground into a meatgrinder. 

[Lectorog]

If you didn't see, apparently Total Biscuit is the leader of the TR, officially endorsed by Planetside 2. The other factions have leaders that I've not heard of. This development puzzles me.

[OREOSOME]

DOWN WITH SEANANNERS! DOWN WITH TOBUSCUS! LONG LIVE THE TR!

[Vactor]

As I said, EXAMPLE...

An ESF can take damage from all numbers of things and are never effected by them. Not even Fire from another ESF disrupts their aim unless the pilot panics. The ability for a calm pilot to have continuous accuracy at all times even when under fire from any number of things makes the ability of an ESF to be higher then even a MBT...

An ESF firing on an active AA Turret is never bothered, I personally have taken down an AA Turret that was shooting at me from the start without even wavering cause I knew that no matter what I could continue firing on it without much worry because the combination of One Rocketpod Volley and then One Rotary Volley would kill it without problems and leave me with 1/4 Health, enough to escape and repair. And due to the limit of both angle and lack of any other player out there playing AA, I could escape with great ease...

Now if while under that fire from the AA Turret I lost aim due to screenshake, I would NOT have been able to take it down...

Note: I said sunderer turrets, not AA turrets.  An ESF can get chewed up pretty fast trying to strafe a sunderer with both turrets blazing, and they can be deployed throughout the battlefield, they aren't static like AA turrets.  I think people forget how durable sunderers are, and only think of them as mobile spawn points.