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1: NC

2: NC and TR

3: NC, TR and Vanu

[TheBronzePickle]

NC's a lot more 'mainstream' than TR as far as media is concerned.

[umiman]

Pfft! Mainstream?! The NC are fighting the good fight so that all the good people of Amurrica Auraxis can pay taxes, work for minimum wage, and worship celebrities! OO RAH!

[Flying Dice]

Sadly, rebels terrorists freedom fighters corporate mercenaries are still more attractive than jackbooted fascists that treat their soldiers like Imperial Guard (Want to sign up? Here's your t-shirt and flashlight BB gun!  Now go die for glory or something.) or tech-worshipping weeaboos with a hardon for lasers and anti-grav.

 

[Darkening Kaos]

I wonder how many certs it costs for proximity detection tech on a Scythe......?

So many crash into things, I do wonder - after all, it is not deliberate...........Is it?

[Thexor]

Think of it this way: you commit suicide, or get TK'd, nobody gets kill credit against you. You're just depriving the other team of valuable experience, which in turn deprives them of certs, which in turn leaves them poorly equipped.   

[justinlee999]

Think of it this way: you commit suicide, or get TK'd, nobody gets kill credit against you. You're just depriving the other team of valuable experience, which in turn deprives them of certs, which in turn leaves them poorly equipped.   

Thinking like a true MOBA player here.

[Darkening Kaos]

[font==Sarcasm]
Ah!  So when they have 60% pop on the continent, and your faction is only 20%, they need help to even up the odds......

I see, that makes it much clearer, thanks.
[/font]

[Neyvn]

Think of it this way: you commit suicide, or get TK'd, nobody gets kill credit against you. You're just depriving the other team of valuable experience, which in turn deprives them of certs, which in turn leaves them poorly equipped.   

Which needs to be addressed...
This should not be allowed to happen, as I said before, Ejector seats should be the only way to exit an aircraft midflight (other then Gals of course)

[darkrider2]

According to Steam this game is free to play? AM I DREAMING PINCH ME.

[Flying Dice]

According to Steam this game is free to play? AM I DREAMING PINCH ME.

No dream, just lots of bitching about p2w as is the norm for any f2p game. Personally I'm going to play the heck out of it once my new computer gets here.

[Neyvn]

According to Steam this game is free to play? AM I DREAMING PINCH ME.

No dream, just lots of bitching about p2w as is the norm for any f2p game. Personally I'm going to play the heck out of it once my new computer gets here.

Can we be clear here...
Its not really P2W. Its more a P2Advance Faster. Spending money can give you the ability to unlock different weapons sooner then that of someone that is playing with the ingame method of unlocking, you can not upgrade the 'stats' of the weapon or vehicle without getting Certs but you can get their weapons...

Though I do think that with tanks the different kinds of Turrets should really be upgrades not unlocks or something...

[Flying Dice]

The only issue I really have with their system is letting people upgrade vehicles with real cash. Other than that, it's fine; pretty much everything else you can buy is either cosmetic or a gun frame. All of the class upgrades and weapon parts have to be earned, to my recollection.

That aside, I think the whole issue with "OMG it's so hard to get lots of certs" is more than a tad over-exaggerated, both because it is an MMO (meaning that it's expected for it to take a long time to complete/unlock every damned feature) and because you don't need to unlock every single thing for a single class, much less all of them, in order to set up your ideal loadout. I would normally hesitate to say this, but it really does reek of the CoD mentality, with people expecting to unlock piles of stuff every time they make a tiny bit of progress. More is not better, neh?

 

[Rez]

Quit your p2w apologizing.  You can pay for an in-game advantage. qed.

There seems to be some prevailing attitude that unless patronage outright gives you a 'I win' button, then it's not pay to win.   I don't think I've ever seen a game that does this.  If paying to achieve an in-game advantage isn't p2w, just what is?

[SalmonGod]

It's going to take me at least a month of dedicated saving to afford an 1000 cert weapon, if I keep playing at the pace I have been.  I haven't been putting in hardcore gamer hours, but I've been playing every day for over a week.  Seems a bit excessive.

[Flying Dice]

Quit your p2w apologizing.  You can pay for an in-game advantage. qed.

There seems to be some prevailing attitude that unless patronage outright gives you a 'I win' button, then it's not pay to win.   I don't think I've ever seen a game that does this.  If paying to achieve an in-game advantage isn't p2w, just what is?

See, this is the issue. I agree that the vehicle upgrades are blatant p2w. Weapon frames? I don't think so. This is a FPS, after all; the outcome of combat is always going to be determined more by active intelligence, reflexes, game knowledge, and (naturally) luck than by what gun you're using compared to the other guy. In the vast majority of cases that I've seen, people whining about one gun or another being overpowered are those who get killed a lot and can't figure out why, so they latch on to the easy scapegoat. Coincidentally, the p2w label matches that very well.

That's the issue I have with the people who automatically assume that "pay to unlock the basic form of guns that are at least plausibly describable as sidegrades" equates to "automatic win button, insert cash here". This isn't an Evonyalike where absolutely everything is improved by dumping cash on it, and it isn't an RPG where raw numbers matter more than player ability.

In short, if people can go around in FPSes doing well with the shittiest guns, the problem is not with being able to unlock guns slightly earlier by paying cash, it's that people are willing to latch onto any excuse for why they aren't doing well.

The vehicle upgrades? Yes, they're a problem. Unlike the guns they're very clearly direct upgrades which can be bought with cash or certs (while the infantry upgrades are only available through certs), and they give very clear advantages. Issue, which I have already clearly acknowledged.

Guns? Not so much. Unless you're trying to claim that in every FPS ever made the people who have been playing for long enough to get more guns are automatically going to win every round because they have better guns. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's not how it works.

I'm not practicing apologetics, I'm calling out bullshit on both sides of the line. Making vehicle upgrades available through cash is bad (though not nearly as much as some games), and citing every possible thing you can buy with cash is patently absurd, particularly when you don't have a statistically significant advantage drawn from it. You might as well claim that the camo patterns you can buy are p2w because they make it easier to blend it with the landscape or some tripe like that. 

If there were significantly better guns that could only be unlocked with real cash, that would be p2w. That's very clearly not what this is.


On a slightly related point: Like all games with progression, you get exactly as much out as you put in. If someone is concerned that they're not progressing enough because they only play a couple hours a week, I don't think it's out of place to question why the hell they're playing a FPS (of all things) to unlock shit rather than to have fun pretending to murder people.