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Author Topic: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD  (Read 698398 times)

ThatZommy

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2130 on: August 21, 2016, 01:49:23 pm »

Is the tissue still called "skin"?
In the tissue and material definition files, no, it's called "stone" which is what it should be. It's just that in-game it's called "skin" whenever any damage is done to a body part, for some reason.

Can you post the tissue and material?
Code: (Tissue) [Select]
[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:STONE_SKIN_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_NAME:stone:NP]
[STRUCTURAL]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SKIN]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[HEALING_RATE:100]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
The material is just the default stone template.

How about the tissue?
It gets the name from the tissue in damage reports, in my experience.
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ZM5

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2131 on: August 21, 2016, 04:05:40 pm »

Is the tissue still called "skin"?
In the tissue and material definition files, no, it's called "stone" which is what it should be. It's just that in-game it's called "skin" whenever any damage is done to a body part, for some reason.

Can you post the tissue and material?
Code: (Tissue) [Select]
[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:STONE_SKIN_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_NAME:stone:NP]
[STRUCTURAL]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SKIN]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[HEALING_RATE:100]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
The material is just the default stone template.

How about the tissue?
It gets the name from the tissue in damage reports, in my experience.
Normally it does - I have another creature that's fully made out of stone and this problem doesn't occur. For whatever reason with this one it labels it "skin" instead of "stone" like it is in the file - I'm not sure if this has something to do with the castes being made out of different materials.

ThatZommy

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2132 on: August 21, 2016, 04:31:52 pm »

Is the tissue still called "skin"?
In the tissue and material definition files, no, it's called "stone" which is what it should be. It's just that in-game it's called "skin" whenever any damage is done to a body part, for some reason.

Can you post the tissue and material?
Code: (Tissue) [Select]
[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:STONE_SKIN_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_NAME:stone:NP]
[STRUCTURAL]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SKIN]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[HEALING_RATE:100]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
The material is just the default stone template.

How about the tissue?
It gets the name from the tissue in damage reports, in my experience.
Normally it does - I have another creature that's fully made out of stone and this problem doesn't occur. For whatever reason with this one it labels it "skin" instead of "stone" like it is in the file - I'm not sure if this has something to do with the castes being made out of different materials.

Woops, I thought you just posted the default stone material.

I'm convinced that every time I post on this forum I embarrass myself somehow. It's a curse, I say.



Oh, and I've got an interaction that isn't working. I've never understood interactions, so I'm not especially surprised, but I can't figure out the problem. Some help would be nice.


The bit in interaction_standard
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The bit in the creature.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


I'm sure it's obvious, and I might have just missed something, but I've gone over it multiple times and checked the wiki and I can't find the problem.
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Managrimm

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2133 on: August 21, 2016, 08:16:13 pm »

Is the tissue still called "skin"?
In the tissue and material definition files, no, it's called "stone" which is what it should be. It's just that in-game it's called "skin" whenever any damage is done to a body part, for some reason.

Can you post the tissue and material?
Code: (Tissue) [Select]
[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:STONE_SKIN_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_NAME:stone:NP]
[STRUCTURAL]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SKIN]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[HEALING_RATE:100]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
The material is just the default stone template.

How about the tissue?
It gets the name from the tissue in damage reports, in my experience.
Normally it does - I have another creature that's fully made out of stone and this problem doesn't occur. For whatever reason with this one it labels it "skin" instead of "stone" like it is in the file - I'm not sure if this has something to do with the castes being made out of different materials.

Ooh, that's your problem. You can't define different materials in different castes. They're defined on the creature level and having multiple with the same name will cause only one to be used. You can, however, tell castes to be made of different tissues using the body detail plan and tissues themselves can call on different materials. Define a tissue that's made of INORGANIC:STONE instead of the local creature material for skin. Name it SKIN_STONE or something. Then instead of [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:METAL_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:BONE] use something like [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:METAL_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN_STONE:BONE].
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ZM5

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2134 on: August 23, 2016, 08:30:18 am »

Ooh, that's your problem. You can't define different materials in different castes. They're defined on the creature level and having multiple with the same name will cause only one to be used. You can, however, tell castes to be made of different tissues using the body detail plan and tissues themselves can call on different materials. Define a tissue that's made of INORGANIC:STONE instead of the local creature material for skin. Name it SKIN_STONE or something. Then instead of [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:METAL_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:BONE] use something like [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:METAL_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN_STONE:BONE].
Oh that worked, thanks a lot!

Ok, I came across another issue when doing the energy-based race I mentioned before. I think I have them figured out for the most part, but when I stab them in the chest it says "jamming the wrappings through the soul gem" and obviously that shouldn't happen because it makes no sense. How would I go about fixing this and making so it only shows "you stab the ethereal in the upper body, tearing the wrappings and shattering the soul gem" instead of the wrappings jamming through it?

Here's the wrapping raws for reference:
Code: [Select]
[MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:WRAPPINGS_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:LIGHT_BROWN]
[STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:wrappings]
[STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:wrappings]
[STATE_COLOR:LIQUID:LIGHT_BROWN]
[STATE_NAME:LIQUID:n/a]
[STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:n/a]
[STATE_COLOR:GAS:LIGHT_BROWN]
[STATE_NAME:GAS:n/a]
[STATE_ADJ:GAS:n/a]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:0]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[SPEC_HEAT:4181]
[IGNITE_POINT:10508]
[MELTING_POINT:NONE]
[BOILING_POINT:NONE]
[HEATDAM_POINT:10250]
[COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
[MAT_FIXED_TEMP:NONE]
[SOLID_DENSITY:200]
[LIQUID_DENSITY:NONE]
[MOLAR_MASS:55845]
[IMPACT_YIELD:10000]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:10000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:5000000]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:100000]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:100000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:80000]
[TENSILE_YIELD:1000000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:1000000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:5000000]
[TORSION_YIELD:10000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:10000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:5000000]
[SHEAR_YIELD:100000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:100000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:80000]
[BENDING_YIELD:1000000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:1000000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:5000000]
[MAX_EDGE:100000]
[ABSORPTION:100]
The stats are probably a bit excessive, but I'm not sure what the exact values are for being fully immune to blunt attacks, so I went with really high values to make sure.

ThatZommy

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2135 on: August 23, 2016, 11:58:56 am »

Ooh, that's your problem. You can't define different materials in different castes. They're defined on the creature level and having multiple with the same name will cause only one to be used. You can, however, tell castes to be made of different tissues using the body detail plan and tissues themselves can call on different materials. Define a tissue that's made of INORGANIC:STONE instead of the local creature material for skin. Name it SKIN_STONE or something. Then instead of [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:METAL_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:BONE] use something like [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:METAL_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN_STONE:BONE].
Oh that worked, thanks a lot!

Ok, I came across another issue when doing the energy-based race I mentioned before. I think I have them figured out for the most part, but when I stab them in the chest it says "jamming the wrappings through the soul gem" and obviously that shouldn't happen because it makes no sense. How would I go about fixing this and making so it only shows "you stab the ethereal in the upper body, tearing the wrappings and shattering the soul gem" instead of the wrappings jamming through it?

Here's the wrapping raws for reference:
Code: [Select]
[MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:WRAPPINGS_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:LIGHT_BROWN]
[STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:wrappings]
[STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:wrappings]
[STATE_COLOR:LIQUID:LIGHT_BROWN]
[STATE_NAME:LIQUID:n/a]
[STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:n/a]
[STATE_COLOR:GAS:LIGHT_BROWN]
[STATE_NAME:GAS:n/a]
[STATE_ADJ:GAS:n/a]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:0]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[SPEC_HEAT:4181]
[IGNITE_POINT:10508]
[MELTING_POINT:NONE]
[BOILING_POINT:NONE]
[HEATDAM_POINT:10250]
[COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
[MAT_FIXED_TEMP:NONE]
[SOLID_DENSITY:200]
[LIQUID_DENSITY:NONE]
[MOLAR_MASS:55845]
[IMPACT_YIELD:10000]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:10000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:5000000]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:100000]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:100000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:80000]
[TENSILE_YIELD:1000000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:1000000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:5000000]
[TORSION_YIELD:10000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:10000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:5000000]
[SHEAR_YIELD:100000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:100000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:80000]
[BENDING_YIELD:1000000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:1000000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:5000000]
[MAX_EDGE:100000]
[ABSORPTION:100]
The stats are probably a bit excessive, but I'm not sure what the exact values are for being fully immune to blunt attacks, so I went with really high values to make sure.

It's all about the way you imagine it.
That could just mean the sword pulls some wrappings along with it into the soul jem.

It's a lot lazier, so I'd recommend that. I've no idea how to stop it from acting like ribs, though.
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ZM5

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2136 on: August 23, 2016, 04:53:56 pm »

It's all about the way you imagine it.
That could just mean the sword pulls some wrappings along with it into the soul jem.

It's a lot lazier, so I'd recommend that. I've no idea how to stop it from acting like ribs, though.
As much as I'd like to, I plan on releasing this so I'd rather have it in a non-immersion breaking condition. I'm still doing some experimentation but no luck so far.

Putnam

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2137 on: August 23, 2016, 07:04:30 pm »

High STRAIN_AT_YIELD is worse, not better. STRAIN_AT_YIELD is elasticity--how much the object will bend under force.

scamtank

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2138 on: August 23, 2016, 09:23:38 pm »

Ok, I came across another issue when doing the energy-based race I mentioned before. I think I have them figured out for the most part, but when I stab them in the chest it says "jamming the wrappings through the soul gem" and obviously that shouldn't happen because it makes no sense. How would I go about fixing this and making so it only shows "you stab the ethereal in the upper body, tearing the wrappings and shattering the soul gem" instead of the wrappings jamming through it?

What's the tissue definition look like? About the only thing I can imagine that it could have in common with default-type bones is the [STRUCTURAL] tag. I thought jamming was all about hardness and other material properties too, but maybe that's the cincher?
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ZM5

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2139 on: August 24, 2016, 01:08:42 am »

Ok, I came across another issue when doing the energy-based race I mentioned before. I think I have them figured out for the most part, but when I stab them in the chest it says "jamming the wrappings through the soul gem" and obviously that shouldn't happen because it makes no sense. How would I go about fixing this and making so it only shows "you stab the ethereal in the upper body, tearing the wrappings and shattering the soul gem" instead of the wrappings jamming through it?

What's the tissue definition look like? About the only thing I can imagine that it could have in common with default-type bones is the [STRUCTURAL] tag. I thought jamming was all about hardness and other material properties too, but maybe that's the cincher?
Code: [Select]
[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:WRAPPING_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_NAME:wrappings:wrappings]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:WRAPPINGS]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[HEALING_RATE:100]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]

[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:ENERGY_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_NAME:energy:energy]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:ENERGY]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[HEALING_RATE:100]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:FEATHERS]
That's the tissue layers - neither have [STRUCTURAL] so dont think thats it.

High STRAIN_AT_YIELD is worse, not better. STRAIN_AT_YIELD is elasticity--how much the object will bend under force.
I'm not sure what to put there, then - if I go with a complete 0 in the STRAIN_AT_YIELD fields for blunt attacks I get "shattering the wrappings" when doing edged attacks, and the "jamming the wrappings" thing still pops up. Blunt attacks seem to sever their limbs too with those fields set to 0 for some reason.

EDIT: Ooook, think I fixed it - I still get "denting the wrappings" sometimes but it's not as weird as jamming them through a solid gem.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 05:25:39 pm by ZM5 »
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ThatZommy

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2140 on: August 25, 2016, 03:16:39 pm »

Right, I've got two problems that may or may not be related.

First is a problem with some plants I modded in. I've never modded plants in before, so it's not especially surprising, but I'm not sure what the game is complaining about.

The errorlog-
Code: [Select]
ISTUTREE::Unrecognized Item Token:
ISTUTREE::Unrecognized Material Token:
TISUTOVINE::Unrecognized Item Token:
TISUTOVINE::Unrecognized Material Token:

And the plants-

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


As for the second problem, there's no errorlog. I'll start creating a world, but it'll crash during worldgen by year 20~. It varies, though. At first I thought it was a problem with war declarations, because I didn't have variable_positions or defined positions for generals and the sort. But I added the variable_positions tag to my entities, and it's still crashing. Nothing in the errorlog, and everything is taken from the Dwarf entity, so I'm not sure what's wrong.

These three entities are the only ones in the file-

-snip-


I thought it might have been a problem with there only being three civs, but I went ahead and tested that by slowly deleting civs in another DF intall and it can generate the entire world, 125 years with just the Dorf entity.

As usual I probably missed something obvious, but as usual I can't find it. The translations exist and so do the creatures and weapons and stuff. It generated for 5 years once and legends mode made things sound normal.

Oh, and if anyone is wondering the mod is based on a book I'm writing. Or atleast the universe the book is set in.

EDIT: Wow, the post exceeded the max character limit. I guess I'll just put the entities in a second post...?
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ThatZommy

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2141 on: August 25, 2016, 03:18:47 pm »

The entities-

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd post the third one but I've already posted twice in succession and I don't want to make it look like spam.
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Nahere

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2142 on: August 26, 2016, 01:01:32 am »

Crashes without errorlogs? I suppose it's time to repost this:
This will be a useful tactic for future modders.

DF doesn't tend to shut down when it encounters an error, it simply keeps trying to run until it crashes and burns.  If something throws the parser out of whack, it'll keep going on its merry way, even if that means it'll start sticking materials and creatures where they shouldn't go, leading to the weirdness that happens due to duplicate raws.  I figured whatever the bug was here, it must be related somehow to this phenomenon: something that isn't listed among the illegal operations but throws the parser out of place so you get invincible bandits if you're lucky and crashes if you're not.

So I got a new idea: Instead of playing hit-or-miss and trying to find a pattern for how stable the game was, try to figure out how the game was loading the raws.  How?  Simple: deliberately introduce errors into the files and read the order they show up in the error log.  Turns out the game always loads the raws in the same order: inorganics, plants, tools, creatures, civs, and interactions, and within a type, it loads them in the order the files are arranged (alphabetically).

I couldn't figure out what was making the difference between whether the game loaded or crashed, but I did find that when it crashed, the error logs always stopped at the same creature group, no matter where they were placed.

It's the shellcreeper family sky-blue spinies/paraspinies.  They've been in since the very beginning, not making trouble, but ultimately setting up the stage for an inevitable crash later on.  Rather fitting, no?  Curse you, spiny blue shell!

Remove them and the game is 100% stable.  Problem solved!  (Still haven't figured out what the problem is exactly, but the whole shellcreeper family is kind of knotted together in order to avoid repetition, and it isn't hard to imagine that formerly unknown bugs could come from that kind of data structure.  I'll just give them their own separate section.)
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ThatZommy

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2143 on: August 26, 2016, 01:29:03 am »

Crashes without errorlogs? I suppose it's time to repost this:
This will be a useful tactic for future modders.

DF doesn't tend to shut down when it encounters an error, it simply keeps trying to run until it crashes and burns.  If something throws the parser out of whack, it'll keep going on its merry way, even if that means it'll start sticking materials and creatures where they shouldn't go, leading to the weirdness that happens due to duplicate raws.  I figured whatever the bug was here, it must be related somehow to this phenomenon: something that isn't listed among the illegal operations but throws the parser out of place so you get invincible bandits if you're lucky and crashes if you're not.

So I got a new idea: Instead of playing hit-or-miss and trying to find a pattern for how stable the game was, try to figure out how the game was loading the raws.  How?  Simple: deliberately introduce errors into the files and read the order they show up in the error log.  Turns out the game always loads the raws in the same order: inorganics, plants, tools, creatures, civs, and interactions, and within a type, it loads them in the order the files are arranged (alphabetically).

I couldn't figure out what was making the difference between whether the game loaded or crashed, but I did find that when it crashed, the error logs always stopped at the same creature group, no matter where they were placed.

It's the shellcreeper family sky-blue spinies/paraspinies.  They've been in since the very beginning, not making trouble, but ultimately setting up the stage for an inevitable crash later on.  Rather fitting, no?  Curse you, spiny blue shell!

Remove them and the game is 100% stable.  Problem solved!  (Still haven't figured out what the problem is exactly, but the whole shellcreeper family is kind of knotted together in order to avoid repetition, and it isn't hard to imagine that formerly unknown bugs could come from that kind of data structure.  I'll just give them their own separate section.)

I'm not sure how to use that bit of info to fix the problem.
Reading it again, what I should do is litter random [THISISNTANACTUALTOKEN] entries throughout the raws I've modded in, and see where the game stops bringing them up in  the errorlog? And that is where the problem is?
If so I guess I'll go ahead and try that. Theoretically that'll work on individual creatues too, right? So I could number them within a creature that was causing issues, and locate the exact line that is causing problems?
Why does this remind me of minesweeper?


Anywho, that might help fix the entities but I'm still not sure about the trees. They seem to work fine, except they're causing errors.

EDIT: Oh, and thanks for helping out.
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ZM5

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #2144 on: August 28, 2016, 03:58:33 pm »

I'm having issues with creatures that are immune to fire/heat damage.
Code: [Select]
[SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
[MULTIPLY_VALUE:15]
[COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
[HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
[IGNITE_POINT:NONE]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_MELTING_POINT:55000]
[IF_EXISTS_SET_BOILING_POINT:57000]
[SPEC_HEAT:30000]
Need to make sure blood and pus aren't solid at regular temperatures.
[SELECT_MATERIAL:BLOOD]
[PLUS_MATERIAL:PUS]
[MELTING_POINT:10000]
When I copy the above code from the dragon raws, it seems that for whatever reason it superheats locally defined materials such as ichor for a vapor attack, which causes things covered with it to catch on fire - it seemed to do something similar with a non-locally defined acid material that I have - shouldn't happen in either case. How would I change the code so that doesn't happen anymore?
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