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Author Topic: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."  (Read 11265 times)

kaenneth

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2012, 03:44:36 pm »

I am against the death penalty except in two cases; murder/attempted while already in prison, or attempting to escape while in prison for murder/attempted.

If they are willing to sit in their cage without harming others, execution is a waste.
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Neonivek

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2012, 04:15:03 pm »

I am against the death penalty except in two cases; murder/attempted while already in prison, or attempting to escape while in prison for murder/attempted.

If they are willing to sit in their cage without harming others, execution is a waste.

Except you forget that a large portion of the USA considers the stabbing and raping and brawling that goes on in prison to be "part of the punishment".

Which frankly I don't believe should be the case.
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mainiac

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2012, 07:48:53 pm »

Just because someone is "obviously innocent" as you insist on sarcastically repeating doesn't mean that innocence will be obvious in court.

The nativity of people who think themselves hard-nosed will never cease to amaze me.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

ChairmanPoo

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2012, 07:52:22 pm »

I think you mean "naivety"


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Theoboldi

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2012, 07:55:18 pm »

Okay, perhaps I went overboard with calling him obviously innocent. It doesn't change the fact that the evidence was unfairly skewed against his favor, which I am blaming the prosecution for. Of course his innocence wasn't obvious in court. That's because important evidence was withheld from court.

So yeah. I hope people will finally get now why I'm blaming the prosecution for all this. They tampered with evidence, to skew the things against DeLunas favor.

And when did I ever make the impression of wanting to look hard-nosed?

Edit: If it was because of my earlier rant, I'm sorry about that. Neoniveks post just struck me as being very defensive of the court's actions in this case.

Edit2: And I am an idiot for thinking that was directed at me. I shouldn't partake in these discussions when I'm lacking sleep. Ignore most of what I posted above.  :-[
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 08:18:34 pm by Theoboldi »
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Truean

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2012, 08:38:02 pm »

Truean, with your permission, I would like to use that line (attributed to you of course) in any and all future arguments I have regarding the death penalty.

Go ahead. Feel free.

I am against the death penalty except in two cases; murder/attempted while already in prison, or attempting to escape while in prison for murder/attempted.

If they are willing to sit in their cage without harming others, execution is a waste.

A simpler solution would be to build more cells and place only one prisoner in them while dividing meal times up among several small dining halls rotated throughout the day. Thereby you no don't have as many prisoner interactions without resorting to solitary confinement.
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Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

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mainiac

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2012, 08:44:00 pm »

Okay, perhaps I went overboard with calling him obviously innocent. It doesn't change the fact that the evidence was unfairly skewed against his favor, which I am blaming the prosecution for. Of course his innocence wasn't obvious in court. That's because important evidence was withheld from court.

My comments were not directed at you, they were directed at the person acting as if obviously innocent people have never before been put to death in this country.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Theoboldi

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2012, 08:46:51 pm »

Okay, perhaps I went overboard with calling him obviously innocent. It doesn't change the fact that the evidence was unfairly skewed against his favor, which I am blaming the prosecution for. Of course his innocence wasn't obvious in court. That's because important evidence was withheld from court.

My comments were not directed at you, they were directed at the person acting as if obviously innocent people have never before been put to death in this country.

I'll just direct you at the edit I made and apologize for being an idiot.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2012, 09:00:35 pm »

I am against the death penalty except in two cases; murder/attempted while already in prison, or attempting to escape while in prison for murder/attempted.

If they are willing to sit in their cage without harming others, execution is a waste.
A simpler solution would be to build more cells and place only one prisoner in them while dividing meal times up among several small dining halls rotated throughout the day. Thereby you no don't have as many prisoner interactions without resorting to solitary confinement.
To this I would add both dividing large workout yards into five or six "slices" and policy of aggressive reassignment for prisoners who come into conflict to other areas of the prison, including an "unaffiliated wing" for prisoners who are confirmed gangless or defect from a prison gang and assist the prison's staff with information.

Oh yeah, and re-nationalize the fucking prisons, that would probably be nice too. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to give them to corporate entities? Have these people not read cyberpunk?
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mainiac

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2012, 09:17:01 pm »

\
I'll just direct you at the edit I made and apologize for being an idiot.

It's hardly indicative of idiocy to misunderstand an unclear pronoun on the internet.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

kaenneth

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2012, 09:30:12 pm »

\
I'll just direct you at the edit I made and apologize for being an idiot.

It's hardly indicative of idiocy to misunderstand an unclear pronoun on the internet.

You people are like that about them.
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Truean

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2012, 09:34:37 pm »

I am against the death penalty except in two cases; murder/attempted while already in prison, or attempting to escape while in prison for murder/attempted.

If they are willing to sit in their cage without harming others, execution is a waste.
A simpler solution would be to build more cells and place only one prisoner in them while dividing meal times up among several small dining halls rotated throughout the day. Thereby you no don't have as many prisoner interactions without resorting to solitary confinement.
To this I would add both dividing large workout yards into five or six "slices" and policy of aggressive reassignment for prisoners who come into conflict to other areas of the prison, including an "unaffiliated wing" for prisoners who are confirmed gangless or defect from a prison gang and assist the prison's staff with information.

Oh yeah, and re-nationalize the fucking prisons, that would probably be nice too. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to give them to corporate entities? Have these people not read cyberpunk?

We know beyond doubt for a statistical and mathematical certainty that even if we have a 99.9% accuracy rate for conviction and sentencing. That means 1 person out of 1000 is wrongfully convicted, despite an absolutely excellent percentage of "getting the right person." There are millions of Americans incarcerated. There have been many condemned to die. Apply the same formula.... What result? Is this just? And, then realize that we do not have a 99.9% successful conviction rate of getting person who did the crime....

This is no radical theory. This is a rather old saying, "I should rather ten guilty men go free than see one wrongfully convicted."

I submit that no matter how horrible the crime, the punishment of execution imposed by the state is worse. Never mind entirely the fact that it's incredibly difficult to get an often legitimate insanity defense taken seriously or that often courts simply won't hear or take seriously several defenses and evidences of defendants. Crimes of these types are often rash acts of anger and though they are unjust, they are not committed by those asserting they are striving to be paragons of Justice.

Through execution, the state is also committing murder, but the murder it commits is far worse. Premeditated, prescribed killing done on ceremony and in the name of Justice, is hypocrisy. The state has the right to protect itself by separating dangerous members from it. Execution is not required for this, but rather is vengeance. There is no deterrence in execution, no example set to keep others from committing similar crimes of equal depravity. People have killed other people since the dawn of time and have been punished horribly for it. After thousands of years, this deterrence amounted to nothing. We call for blood, gallons of the stuff, in cries to calm our outrage. Those calls cannot beckon the dead to return. 

No one seems to care. Call it nothing to worry about if you like. Heaven forbid you might care about it. I mean hey, let's say it's even only one person who is wrongfully executed. It's only one life in a system of millions of prisoners, except of course to that person when they say "but it was my life and I did nothing wrong to lose it...." If one innocent man must die for society's vengeance, no matter how justified, is that justice.

If one innocent man must die for society's vengeance, then it is not just for society to have that vengeance.
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2012, 09:38:35 pm »

I....didn't say anything about the death penalty?
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kaenneth

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2012, 09:39:16 pm »

On the topic of the insanity defense; I would argue the point that habitual violent criminal behavior should be considered a sign of mental illness in and of itself. I'm all for treatment over punishment.
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Don't tell anyone that you can see their shadows. If they hear you telling anyone, if you let them know that you know of them, they will get you.

Truean

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Re: "Sorry, we executed the wrong man."
« Reply #59 on: May 21, 2012, 09:44:01 pm »

I....didn't say anything about the death penalty?

Kaenneth did. Also thread's about it. Not a big deal though.

Persuasion is better in person. Hard to do over the net. Had to speak in generalities. Decent arguments in there for anyone who wants them though.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 09:45:41 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.
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