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[Siquo]

Can we stop the ADHD and continue the (im)possibility and usefulness of deterministic multiverses? (Because winning cointosses consistently is way more important than the mental health of our new friend.)

[HiEv]

And I believe the point of quantum mechanics is that even if every variable was existentially known, it would still not be possible to predict outcomes with certainty.

Well, quantum mechanics has several "points", but one of them is that it is completely impossible to know every variable.  Heisenberg's uncertainty principle isn't that observation of one aspect affects another aspect, making it impossible to know both, that's the observer effect.  The uncertainty principle actually says that the unknowability is a fundamental property of the universe at the quantum level.  Some properties literally aren't defined until they are required to be defined for a reaction.

In other words, it's literally impossible to know 100% of the information regarding a coin toss if you're going down to the quantum level, since at the quantum level some properties are just probabilities, rather than specific values.

[Draco18s]

Your posting assumes, Nyan Thousand, that anyone has been able to gather all information on a coin toss and accurately, with 100% certainty, always predict how the coin is going to fall.

And do so in less time than it takes the coin to fall!

[azrael300]

As to derails: I'm suspecting azrael of trolling after thread #x of trivial questions.

From the amount of his threads, quality of their content and grammar of his sentences I suspect he is 10-12yo with ADHD (no offense meant). Of course I can't be sure but there is high probability I am right. But he doesn't seem to be intentionally trolling imo.
(Sorry for derailing the derail)

wrong im 14

[KoboldWarmonger]

AZRAEL WINS

[Sizik]

Even if the universe it not deterministic on a fundamental level, there's still no free will, as randomness has no will.

[Jeoshua]

A truly deterministic universe would preclude free will, but a universe which is non-deterministic does not make is necessary to have free will either.  Either way, Az isn't a 12 year old with ADHD.  He's 14.

[Nyan Thousand]

A truly deterministic universe would preclude free will, but a universe which is non-deterministic does not make is necessary to have free will either.  Either way, Az isn't a 12 year old with ADHD.  He's 14.

Yes. There was a Dinosaur Comic about that. I was going to post that but I couldn't find it, so there.

I think, once we unite QM with classical mechanics, we would finally be able to understand how randomness operates at a subatomic level. If it turns out that it's not random at all, then the universe just got a little more deterministic. If it was truly random, then the universe isn't deterministic at all. Of course, now that you mentioned that non-determinism implies that free will isn't necessary, well, that really changes everything.

I can't really type out a proper response right now. I have this exam in what, 4 hours? And I spent last night taking about coin tosses. Son of a bitch.

[Jeoshua]

Study, bitch.  Unless your exam is on determinism, free will, and 14 year olds... we ain't helpin

What are you doing? Get back to studying?

Seriously.

[Nyan Thousand]

Numerical methods, actually. My buddy has an exam on Probability and Statistics later though, funnily enough.

[Quietust]

Okay, guys, seriously. I think we get the point.

Something gives me the feeling that azrael300 is trolling us...

[Jeoshua]

I don't think it worked, if Science can be believed.

His thread promised science on seeds.  It produced science about determinism, free will, probability, computer science, and his actual age.

I'd say if it was a troll, it definitely backfired.

[NW_Kohaku]

I don't think it worked, if Science can be believed.

His thread promised science on seeds.  It produced science about determinism, free will, probability, computer science, and his actual age.

I'd say if it was a troll, it definitely backfired.

Backfire would imply that he was trolled, himself.  This is just a meandering meta-conversation between people who are willing and capable of arguing over anything, including, apparently, the philosophical ramifications of determinism in trolling.

Have I mentioned I love this forum recently?

[Sadrice]

Speaking of which, there was this company that used webcams aimed at lavalamps to seed random numbers. After a week they suddenly found out they forgot to take the cap off of the lens, but it didn't matter: the natural "noise" from the webcam was random enough already (and they sold those numbers). So just some simple input from "outside" is enough to create enough randomness for high-end usage. (source: http://www.random.org/media/Wired-2003.html). Others use people typing, random mousemovements, or any other type of analogue-to-digital input. Point being: analogue is better

There's a much better (and cooler) way to do that.  You can use the scrap Americium 241 in a smoke detector to shoot alpha particles into a webcam (which will detect them, if you take the filter off).  This can be used to generate true random numbers, or as a screensaver.

[Mrhappyface]

This thread is cancerous. But it's a benign cancer, so I'm cool with it.