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[Neonivek]

Well that and videogames are not an exact science.

Spore, for example, was designed by committee which USUALLY works with Will Wright's games. He likes giving his developers inputs and it often vastly improves the game.

For Spore it created a watered down product.

[Draco18s]

Well that and videogames are not an exact science.

So true.
And release date has a terrifyingly large impact these days.

[Graknorke]

Nah, DoubleFine are kind of wank. The kind where I'd think it was malicious if I didn't think it was incompetence.

[Draco18s]

I was not implying that either of those applied to SBDF9, necessarily. It is true that they abandoned it without giving a reason and leaving out many planned features.

The thing is, because they didn't give a reason we don't know why they abandoned it and it could have been a perfectly valid reason.

Anyway. Yes. I'd be optimistically cautious.

[MrWiggles]

I think its entirely unfair, that perfection be the only expected result. Anything less, and its either conspiracy for fraud or you're terrible incompetent.

There are always more means to fail, then there are means to succeed. And Double Fine hasn't failed. They havent succeed as folks imagine that success to be. Though honestly when you have that idea of success in imagination land, nearly any success will have short coming. As things in imagination land get to be perfect and don't have to deal with the folks having to, I don't know eat or pay rent. Or things costing more then expected or problems being harder to overcome then first suspected or being in a weaken negotiation position from having your financial standing well known.

Space Base DF-9 wasn't a failure, even if its claimed to be one. Folks also tend to think Sonic games are good, or their fan fiction is marvelous and don't actually need to be edited.

Yea, SBDF9, had a laundry list of features it didnt add. It couldn't add them. The game had good initial sales but they dried up quite fast. Future and continued development required there to be revenue stream.  Why would you want a medium/small studio to go out of business over a one fucking title? Its fucking myopic. How dare DoubleFine try new things, experiment.

SBDF9 said from the beginning it would continue support and expansion as long as there was interest. And that interest dwindled.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/9/22/6830469/spacebase-df-9-double-fine-development-ending

[GiglameshDespair]

Well... Yes, it is a failure by the most basic definition: it was to have X content, and it is did not obtain Z amount of content, it has failed. They failed to reach the standard promised.

Requiring even more funding through early access after a kick starter game is also a failure on their part to budget efficiently and make promises within their means. DF are not some new, inexperienced company; they have previous experience in making and budgeting games.

The fact that "there are more ways to fail than succeed" does not make a failure not a failure. What people are angry over is not that it is not perfect. It is that there was a base standard that was promised and paid for that never even got close.

[MrWiggles]

There was no Z. The laundry list wasn't exhaustive, it was what they could think of readily. If interest remained through the years, that list was have changed, but probably never gotten smaller. As for the standard promise, that promise was 'continued development as there was interest'. The interest went away. Promise fulfilled.

And Starbase DF 9 didnt have a kickstarter. It was privately funded at first, then went to early access for continued support. 

[Criptfeind]

The game never got to a state where it was actually a good game. It wouldn't need all the features talked about to succeed, it would just need to be an actually, like, good playable game. Where it never got to. Irrespective of how it was funded (although the fact that it was early access made it far far worse) it's a failure of a game. The fact that it was an early access game, so not only did it fail as a game, but it also TOOK CUSTOMERS MONEY when doing so, was a pretty awful thing. Of course, there are a lot of early access games like that, but I'd consider any developer that does that a pretty skeevy and untrustworthy group. So. That's why doublefine is wank. And why I at least won't back them on a kickstarter.

Edit: You might read this and think that this means I think that making an early access game can make a developer untrustworthy though things that are not their fault, like less then expected uninterested in their games. Almost like if a dev makes an early access game I feel like they are staking their reputation on it being a successful game.

Yes.

[Zangi]

So what did we learn today kids?

Asking for money to trickle in while developing the product is probably not that great an idea... opposed to gathering at least the minimum amount of money needed in a lump sum before getting too far into development.

[MrWiggles]

Thats the entire point of Early Access. Trickle in money for continued development. Most early access titles are not going to not reach v1 or become fun. They can't. Most wont have continued support to sustained development.  Are we now dicussing the merits of that type of funding?

[Sergius]

Which is why we should get rid of all this Early Access nonsense, and make Electronic Arts the only approved publisher for computer games. Have the developers participate in some sort of American Idol contest and whoever has a marketable game gets the publishing contract in a lump sum, to be recouped with 1% of the sales until it covers the initial advance.

The best part is that you can just recycle the whole EA branding as they have the same initials.

[Egan_BW]

EA and EA pretty much the same anyway. You don't get enough funding, the game ends up shit, the investors are angry, and you end up having to make crappy mobile games from your IP.

[Sirus]

Remember Hero Forge? The service that makes custom miniatures using web-based modeling and 3D printing? I backed it at a decent level and got free coupons for 6 models plus free shipping. I just placed my order a few minutes ago, as a nice little Christmas present to myself

Also they apparently offer miniatures in steel and bronze now. Sadly my coupons did not apply to those

[scriver]

Iirc you promised you would make one of those models in my image.

[Sirus]

I recall no such thing