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[Evil Marahadja]

Bucket. Actually you will get more income next turn. Since at the moment you will get money at the harvest season.

Regarding weapons. You could easily get simple weapons and armour for your small militia for 25 coins. Spears and a wooden shield that is.  Metalarmour is probably out of your reach at the moment.

[Doomblade187]

In that case, I would suggest buying the spears and shields for the five to-be militiamen and begin training them yourself, with a program of sparring, wrestling, blocking, dodging, etc. They don't need to train all day, but at least 3 to five days a week of some practice. Send the other volunteers to work on the mill.

And yes, three months a turn sounds good for the time being.

[LordBucket]

You could easily get simple weapons and armour for your
small militia for 25 coins. Spears and a wooden shield that is.

Starting to guess that gold coins here are not really coins, but rather, you're using them as a way of abstracting effort into numbers. If that's the case, then sure...buy the weapons and shields. It just seems strange to me to imagine handing over 10% the tithe on the food output of a 100 man agricultural village worth of gold...assuming one ounce coins, that's a pound an a half of gold...to pay for wooden spears and shields when I can look out my window right now and see enough trees in my own backyard to do the same.

Trying to get a handle on the economy here. 25 coins for 5 spears and 5 shields...so one wooden spear is worth about two and a half gold coins? Since enough wood to build an entire building worth granary large enough to store 4 years worth of food tithes cost us 50 coins...I guess it's the crafting that's the majority of the cost? So a craftsman capable of producing one spear a day, 5 days a week would be able to produce 650 gold coins worth of spears in a year? Almost double the combined trade+food annual income of a noble in charge of a 100 man farming village?

If so we're wasting our time with farming and we should start training spear makers.

[Mr. Palau]

Also he mentioned that the river is connected to the occean so we are
basicly just a little bit farther away from everything on the occean.

And there's a city, Narsis, where that river meets the ocean.

If you were a freighter captain, would you take your ship to the established major trade hub on the ocean, or would you sail past that trade hub, risk taking your ship on a river, all while sailing or rowing against the current, in order to get to a village with only 100 people in it?

I'm aware of the city. We would be using our own ships for trade so the whims of forgeign ship captains is of no concern. Also I was talking about launching ships to export food to other places, so we could get a higher price for it. No one would be coming to us, if we were importing anything we would have our ships go there after they have sold their food and buy whatever we want there.

It's not going to be a huge port or ship either, just a big enough ship to be occean worthy and a big enough port to properly dock it.

You could easily get simple weapons and armour for your
small militia for 25 coins. Spears and a wooden shield that is.

Starting to guess that gold coins here are not really coins, but rather, you're using them as a way of abstracting effort into numbers. If that's the case, then sure...buy the weapons and shields. It just seems strange to me to imagine handing over 10% the tithe on the food output of a 100 man agricultural village worth of gold...assuming one ounce coins, that's a pound an a half of gold...to pay for wooden spears and shields when I can look out my window right now and see enough trees in my own backyard to do the same.

Trying to get a handle on the economy here. 25 coins for 5 spears and 5 shields...so one wooden spear is worth about two and a half gold coins? Since enough wood to build an entire building worth granary large enough to store 4 years worth of food tithes cost us 50 coins...I guess it's the crafting that's the majority of the cost? So a craftsman capable of producing one spear a day, 5 days a week would be able to produce 650 gold coins worth of spears in a year? Almost double the combined trade+food annual income of a noble in charge of a 100 man farming village?

If so we're wasting our time with farming and we should start training spear makers.

Yeah 25 gold coins for a wooden sheild and spear is not right. It should be like 5 coins for such cheap equipment. If we continue with Lordbuckets above equations we would have one spearmaker producing the equivlent output of 37 peasents.   

Because our average peasent makes 17.5 gold coins of value a year.(divide annual earnings by population, tehn 10x because we only get 10% of what they make.)
37 peasents because 650/17.5=37.142 etc.

Thats ridiculous. The average American makes $44,389 so 37 times that would be $23,836,893. I don't think a spear and wooden sheild maker would be in the top 1%, even in a society as unequal as your average fuedal society. A high quality weapons maker, hell yeah, but some guy who makes such simple weapons, hell no.

[Doomblade187]

Also, I don't think it was said anywhere that they were wooden spears. Marahadja just said that it was 25 coins for a "spear and wooden shield". I'm pretty sure the spears have metal heads.

[Mr. Palau]

Also, I don't think it was said anywhere that they were wooden spears. Marahadja just said that it was 25 coins for a "spear and wooden shield". I'm pretty sure the spears have metal heads.

Yeah at first I thought they were wooden, so I wrote "wooden spear and sheild", but eventually realized t'was not so. Hence I wrote "a spear and wooden sheild maker". Even if they have metel spear heads, that wouldn't radically change the amount of money they should cost or the spear maker would make.

[Maldevious]

Just a thought - maybe we are getting a bit too focused on average incomes and such and should just sit back and enjoy the game. These things tend to work themselves out as the game goes along. We're only one turn in, so let's cut the GM some slack, maybe?

[Doomblade187]

Just a thought - maybe we are getting a bit too focused on average incomes and such and should just sit back and enjoy the game. These things tend to work themselves out as the game goes along. We're only one turn in, so let's cut the GM some slack, maybe?

You have a point.

I still think we should buy the weapons, I might add.

[Wayward Device]

Just a thought - maybe we are getting a bit too focused on average incomes and such and should just sit back and enjoy the game. These things tend to work themselves out as the game goes along. We're only one turn in, so let's cut the GM some slack, maybe?

+1
And any word on whether we have a village blacksmith or not?

[Mr. Palau]

Just a thought - maybe we are getting a bit too focused on average incomes and such and should just sit back and enjoy the game. These things tend to work themselves out as the game goes along. We're only one turn in, so let's cut the GM some slack, maybe?

I don't think it was the average income so much as the costs of the weapons. Simple weapons such as those shouldn't cost 25 gold coins when a granary costs 50 or any of the other things outlined above.

If it was 25 bucks to equip them with a spear, wooden sheild, and leather armor that would make sense. Since then you got three guys making things instead of two and the leather armor would make up for the lack of cost of the spear and wooden sheild. It makes the cost seem much more reasonable.

I would also like to say after reading my post over, I apoligize for its tone. I was quite incensed initially and now realize that it wasn't so big of a deal.

[Mr. Palau]

*new post 'cus this is unrelated
Still inquiry as to whether the village has a blacksmith or not.

Also we should begin construction of a bakery under our control and opperated by crafts men we take from the village population (paid more than the average villager). Bread is worth more and since the operation would be under our control we would get all the money. Bread also lasts longer so we would be able to export it to farther away places, that could potentially pay more for food.

[Wayward Device]

*new post 'cus this is unrelated
Still inquiry as to whether the village has a blacksmith or not.

Also we should begin construction of a bakery under our control and opperated by crafts men we take from the village population (paid more than the average villager). Bread is worth more and since the operation would be under our control we would get all the money. Bread also lasts longer so we would be able to export it to farther away places, that could potentially pay more for food.

This would also tie in nicely with our mill. I feel that we're laying solid foundations for turning our village from a sort of pile of mud and peasants into...well, a wealthier pile of mud and peasants.

[10ebbor10]

I think a small dock (Ie just a ponton for riverships to dock) would be better. Medieval people baked their bread at home, meaning there isn't a really big demand for it. The only place where a bakery would be viable is in the city and I doubt we could pull of a profit by selling them bread, because ours will old, expensive(transport costs) and of lower quality.  Meanwhile a dock will allow more traders, better export possibilities and maybe fishing.

[Mr. Palau]

I think a small dock (Ie just a ponton for riverships to dock) would be better. Medieval people baked their bread at home, meaning there isn't a really big demand for it. The only place where a bakery would be viable is in the city and I doubt we could pull of a profit by selling them bread, because ours will old, expensive(transport costs) and of lower quality.  Meanwhile a dock will allow more traders, better export possibilities and maybe fishing.

Well I was thinking we would build the bakery after we built our dock and a ship. I think if there are any cities that pay a lot for food it might be worth it. (inquiry to the GM in regards to food prices in surronding cities) What we really need to come up with is a good export good, to make the dock pay off and bring in a little money.

[10ebbor10]

I think a small dock (Ie just a ponton for riverships to dock) would be better. Medieval people baked their bread at home, meaning there isn't a really big demand for it. The only place where a bakery would be viable is in the city and I doubt we could pull of a profit by selling them bread, because ours will old, expensive(transport costs) and of lower quality.  Meanwhile a dock will allow more traders, better export possibilities and maybe fishing.

Well I was thinking we would build the bakery after we built our dock and a ship. I think if there are any cities that pay a lot for food it might be worth it. (inquiry to the GM in regards to food prices in surronding cities) What we really need to come up with is a good export good, to make the dock pay off and bring in a little money.

The dock will probably pay of for itself. We don't really need to build a boat( There's a portcity downstream, so there'll be river traffic). Probably local farmers will pay those boats to take their grain to our mill, and bring it back. It can also function as a stop for passenger boats, if we build an inn.