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Voting closed: April 07, 2013, 10:34:35 am

[Lenglon]

pull myself up on to the arm Jim is holding me with and sit on it.

[SeriousConcentrate]

Jim looked at Lyra when she started climbing him, then moved his arm so his hand was on her back when she sat, just in case she needed the support. Doubtful, as she was a cat, but it wasn't like he was going to get tired.

[Corsair]

((Full military sounds good although I agree that))
"These arguments are none of my concern"
wander towards the armoury

[Sean Mirrsen]

((I'm fine with going Mildly Frikkin Military, to be honest.

Use the third option as the base - everybody is now a conscript/whatever rank in the new ARMed forces. Take a page out of the new XCOM actually, and have everyone have "standard equipment". One main weapon, one sidearm, one suit of armor, one/several auxiliary items. Anything out of the Armory can be standard equipment, and as a soldier does missions and gains bonuses for completing objectives, he/she can pretty much buy him/herself higher tiers of weaponry - but only that given set is "standard" - i.e. maintained for the character. If something out of that list gets lost or damaged/used up in the mission, it is replaced for free, though bonuses may be docked depending on circumstances. Every time the soldier advances a rank, he/she gets a choice again, this time expanded.

At any point, anyone can choose to swap a piece of their current "standard" equipment for a different piece of equipment appropriate to their rank - i.e. a Gauss Rifle for a Laser Rifle, a LESHO Rifle for a Plasma Projector, one variant of a Battlesuit for another, a Battlesuit for a Mk3 (though not the other way around unless rank-appropriate) etc. Of course, things like the Avatar of War enforce certain limitations of their own in regards to swapping, and I suspect that swapping out genetic modifications would be impossible or very troublesome (seriously, XCOM:EW hits the nail on the head here, almost), so common sense applies there.

Custom weapons and equipment are not maintained under this system, obviously. Something like the Gungnir is treated as a modified Laser Rifle, for instance, if you've used your standard Laser Rifle to make it - and if you lose it, you will be returned a Laser Rifle, not a Gungnir. Custom paintjobs and simple decorations may still be restored as a matter of repairs (on armor for instance), but fully lost modifications will remain fully lost. This is already the case for things like artificial bodies, for instance, so it makes sense to do it that way.

On missions, budgets become entirely optional, since everyone is guaranteed equipment. On the rare occasions a budget is needed, it is treated as temporary funds, no more no less. The equipment purchased with those funds is not retained after mission, though returning the purchased items in one piece does increase the team's chances of bonus payouts.

Most importantly, the Armory stops being a dumping ground for loots - because given how the AM procures custom equipment, there is literally no use for random miscellanea, and especially valuables, unless they hold value to either the looter or someone they know. Trade can only occur between characters under this system - so someone making a custom item can still sell it to someone for tokens, as can a looter sell something of practical or sentimental value to a willing comrade.

I'm not sure, but I think that covers everything except the details of what rank gets what, and how rank advancement is determined. Opinions?))

[Tiruin]

[I...literally can't keep up with this at the moment :S]

Stay in a close proximity to Jim. Observe Lyra and him. Give Grate a pat on the back with a tidbit of good advice.

[Kriellya]

(( Yeah, the whole question of what appropriate ranks are is the major problem with this system. It's the main balance challenge for #3, and it will be a lot of work to setup correctly.

I think the only thing we've really agreed on thus far (in so much as this has been the most agreeable disagreement we've had, by which I mean we all agree on the basics, and seem to have completely orthogonal ideas on the specifics ) is that replacing the newbie 5 tokens with a slightly more valuable but more restrictive 'role' load-out is all but necessary, no matter what system we go with.

hmm, let me drum up a few loadouts based on the existing professions we have. Cause boredom and procrastination


Fleshtech: Emergency Kit, Cutting Torch, choice of 1-token med == 7 tokens

Technician: Cutting Torch, Scout's Eye, Choice of 3-token conv/unconv weapon == 7 tokens

Transhuman: Microwave Amp, Cam-eyes == 8 tokens? Actually, I like that, transhuman already has the most negatives for the least positives, something that's always bugged me. (I know it's in Speech and CHA, I don't care XD) They are the only profession that has a negative in a primary stat, and are strictly inferior to a grunt with +Exo. And I think it makes sense that they would have installed Cam-eyes before joining the Sword

Physimancer: Microwave Manip, Monoatomic razor, choice of 2-token item? = 7 tokens? Yeah, couldn't come up with a good third item / choice

Merc: 3-token weapons from field of choice, MK II = 8 tokens. With a minus to two skills? Why not! I wanted one profession to come with a MKII, this is just the most reasonable

Grunt: 3-token weapon of choice, Stim of choice, 1-token pill of choice = 7 tokens. Bloody generic profession.


Please ignore my ramblings, sometimes I just sort of write things XD

Anyway, back on topic. The progression system would be something for PW to figure out (poor sod), and I think it's fair that custom weapons and off-load-out items would not be 'insured' by your rank, essentially. What I'm rolling around in my head is how far to carry the profession 'builds' PW has proposed. Again, I think we can all agree that they'll be really good for new players, (and us, when we inevitably succumb to the whims of our 6 sided lords) but he proposed carrying these forward to the later ranks as well. The standard tracks work well, but fleshtech... well, as a medic, I pretty much run out of things to buy as soon as I have a MK III and an emergency kit. I guess I can get increasingly large piles of stims? I mean, just the advanced kit being reloaded between missions is a nice perk, but still, not much progression there

... something very silly has just occurred to me. You know how the Avatar of War gives a +1 to all rolls?
...
Medical Avatar.

[Kriellya]

[I...literally can't keep up with this at the moment :S]

(( I shouldn't be keeping up, but I tend to stalk the site while I'm working in order to take short breaks reading XD ))

[Unholy_Pariah]

get black boxes identified.

[PyroDesu]

((Another thing with any military-style system is when do you determine promotions? Do you promote after a successful mission (or missions), regardless of what the character did, and simply leave token bonuses to be determined by performance (easiest to implement, mind)? Do you leave it egalitarian like our token bonuses from this mission, each character explaining their performance? If someone gives an exceptional performance (like Miyamoto in the robodrome), do they rank up multiple times, becoming exponentially more powerful than their peers from the same mission? Do we strip rank for horrifically bad or even detrimental performance?

And as for ranks, the basic ranks are easy, go by profession (like you did). But what about the second rank? Are the characters forced into profession lines, or do we make even more ranks to differentiate?))

[Sean Mirrsen]

((Ranks aren't classes. There shouldn't really be "loadouts" per class, but something of a "pick among these items, these items, and these items, one of each". A primary weapon, a sidearm, armor, and side items works for almost everyone - "primary weapon" can be an uncon "weapon" like a kin-amp or a mass murder manipulator, a "sidearm" is a choice of several smaller things (I expect hand lasers to become much more common), and extra items can be a whole lot of things. Booze, even. The exception is people who don't want to, or can't, carry a "primary weapon", or weapons at all - for them, the choices at different ranks can be either expanded, or different altogether. Forgoing a "primary" weapon in favor of upgrading armor, for instance, and picking a cutting torch and a toolbox for the other "slots".

The further ranks work in a similar manner, like slots in a CRPG character's inventory, or perhaps like a wizard's level spells. Primary weapon, secondary weapon, armor, items. Increasing rank makes you eligible for using a greater variety of items from the Armory, and increases the amount of stuff you can pick as "standard" - mostly in regards to items, but eventually a second "primary" weapon to carry into the mission, a personal vehicle, etc, with the same slot trading as will be established.

A malleable sort of class system, if you will. Less Diablo, more Dungeon Siege.))

[BFEL]

Keep on hawking. If nobody volunteers two tokens for the manipulator, head off to the armory and trade it in for tokens.

((You're not hawking! I'M HAWKING! YOU DIDN'T EVEN INVENT ANYTHING!))

[Harry Baldman]

((Forgot to mention this, but I very much support the military rank thing, most of all because it could allow medics to replenish their supplies for free, which would make them far more useful. It'd also allow for stuff like coagulant boosters, battle stims and that kind of thing to be used more without worries about the expenses this causes. I'd prefer that promotions be given out to everyone who finishes a successful mission, then gets token bonuses based on what they did.))

[Nikitian]

(( Hi everyone! Guess who's back? 
It's still another half a year of service, but I believe I'll be online from now on most of the days.
Now, I must say, Wow. I've been following the mission threads (not the on-ship one, unfortunately) via the printouts friends sent me, and I am astounded with the changes that have happened. I can only guess their full extent though, so can anyone give a short summary of the current situation?

@GM Requesting status check. Any notable events that happened with Maurice during his internship? Oh, and what part did he play in the recent events? Just hoping here he was at least somewhat useful (say, by working in the infirmary) and didn't hide in the corner doing absolutely nothing.))

ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL.

[GreatWyrmGold]

"Right, so nobody wants the manipulator then? Last call! Two tokens! Third-best deal you'll ever get, but it's a better one than in the armory!"

Keep on hawking. If nobody volunteers two tokens for the manipulator, head off to the armory and trade it in for tokens.

"Hm...I'll take it!" Grate had an idea...actually two, but he could do this one first.

[I...literally can't keep up with this at the moment :S]

Stay in a close proximity to Jim. Observe Lyra and him. Give Grate a pat on the back with a tidbit of good advice.

React appropriately to whatever the Speech roll makes Ms. Feyri say.

Keep on hawking. If nobody volunteers two tokens for the manipulator, head off to the armory and trade it in for tokens.

((You're not hawking! I'M HAWKING! YOU DIDN'T EVEN INVENT ANYTHING!))

((What about murdering Grate?))

(( Hi everyone! Guess who's back? 

((Elvis?
Anyways, did you hear the bit about how we're suddenly a revolution called ARM?))

[Devastator]

(No bogarting the cat-girl.  Cat-girl supplies should only be for the strategic reserve, rather than staked to individual players!)

Approach Jim and Lyra and awkwardly introduce myself to them.

..um?  Hello?  I'm..  um, Leo, and it's good to see the doctor is capable of doing things other than making flesh-horrors.  What's your name?  I take it everything went well with the assault?

((This talk about ranks is a bit too deep for me.  Just that it seems we've literally turned into "Welcome to the revolution, here's your gun."))