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[Azthor]

Zombie invasion? I will go with a Radiant Cleric of Pelor.

Wrong thread, Az.

EDIT : Can I buy scrolls for my wizard, and assume I wrote them in my spellbook?

I suppose, but you'll need to have paid both the cost of the scroll and the scribing cost.

Skyrunner, do you mind if I do this for Paradise? I'll include the scribing costs, of course.

Go ahead.



I think I'll make another Succubus, and this time go for a bard route, instead of sorc as Nieve. Is that OK with Araph?

Also, can I take the Outsider Naturalization feat for free?(All it does is my subtype is changed from Extraplanar to Native, preventing me from being Banished, Dismissed or other unsavory things.)

True, I mistook Araph's for Adwarf's.

[The Fool]

Can the dragon take a Vow of Poverty (BoED)? Technically they can use magic items like everyone else, but I can't imagine a dragon wearing magic items without thinking of something ridiculous like a dragon wearing goggles, or a robed dragon. It also solves the lack of magic weapons with a +1 magic 'effect'.

VoP isn't broken (you can get similar effects for less by just buying things with those effects), but I think it would be less silly for a dragon to take a vow then wear robes and such.

[Azthor]

Can the dragon take a Vow of Poverty (BoED)? Technically they can use magic items like everyone else, but I can't imagine a dragon wearing magic items without thinking of something ridiculous like a dragon wearing goggles, or a robed dragon. It also solves the lack of magic weapons with a +1 magic 'effect'.

VoP isn't broken (you can get similar effects for less by just buying things with those effects), but I think it would be less silly for a dragon to take a vow then wear robes and such.

While blatantly out of character, as a dragon would never open hand of its hoard, I've never thought VoP to be overpowered; maybe at low levels, yes, but it becames quite the burden as gear starts improving. Still, I'd never use a True Dragon as a PC, they are ridiculously weak in comparison to similarly leveled player races.

There is a reason for humans, with their bonus feat and total lack of ability bonuses, to be usually considered the single best race.

[The Fool]

You're right. I thought good dragons would be exempt from hoarding, but I was wrong. I'll just invest in rings and such and reflavor magic items to be a bit more logical for a dragon then.

EDIT: If you look at the homebrewed Blue Dragon class that I posted earlier you'd see that it isn't all that bad. It isn't as optimizable as some other classes, but it has a nice breath weapon and improved multiattack, so I'm willing to forgive it.

Here's Pok Ihk Rasvim. The name translates as 'Stop for Treasure'. The Blue Dragon class, and Improved Multiattack (Draconomicon, p.70) are yet to be approved.

[Azthor]

You're right. I thought good dragons would be exempt from hoarding, but I was wrong. I'll just invest in rings and such and reflavor magic items to be a bit more logical for a dragon then.

EDIT: If you look at the homebrewed Blue Dragon class that I posted earlier you'd see that it isn't all that bad. It isn't as optimizable as some other classes, but it has a nice breath weapon and improved multiattack, so I'm willing to forgive it.

Here's Pok Ihk Rasvim. The name translates as 'Stop for Treasure'. The Blue Dragon class, and Improved Multiattack (Draconomicon, p.70) are yet to be approved.

Venerable Loredrake Earth Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer. While a real dragon casts as though his HD was 7 units lower, that kobold does it with a CL 4 units greater than it should be.

[The Fool]

With feats like Multiattack and Flyby Attack I doubt I'm going for a caster build. The spells are just a bonus, even if they won't do much damage.

With that said I think I wouldn't mind switching to something a bit more simple, but still dragon-like. Would a wyvern be acceptable? It has a more powerful (and poisonous) bite attack, but it only has 2 6 natural weapons.

EDIT: I think Weave is balanced since Weave stops the wyvern from making AoO's against enemies, which I think is a fair trade for a better chance at a full attack.

Spoiler: Dragon v. Wyvern (click to show/hide)

For comparison here is the Blue Dragon and the Wyvern character sheets.

Wyvern Pros:
-Better natural weapons
-Scaling poison (Finally! Scaling poison.)
-Reach tail attack
-Weave to full attack

Cons:
-Talons are air only
-No will advancement? What is this sorcery!?
-Weave means enemies can hit and run away on their turn if they live
-No armor proficiency
-No thumbs
-No BBQ breath weapon

Dragon Pros:
-Can use magic to buff himself
-Fast scaling breath weapon (1d6/level)
-Fast scaling fly speed (10 ft./level)
-All natural weapons available at all times

Cons:
-Weaker natural weapons
-Slow magic progression
-No armor proficiency

I personally think that Blue Dragon may be too powerful for a PC class, but wyvern looks balanced. If I had to pick one, I'd pick the wyvern.

[Skyrunner]

Fool, who do you think will be better both now and in the near future?

A succubus bard (which right now would be just a succubus) or Screwtape the Stronghearted Halfling Wizard/Force Missile Mage?

I'll do the pro/con thing too!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Succubus pros:
Greater Teleport(self) at will
Suggestion with a DC of 27 at will
Energy drain with a touch attack (a kiss or an embrace, to be exact)
FLY
Damage resistance
Assorted resistances
SR (which I think would scale for 11 + level).

Cons:
Few actual damaging abilities
LA +6

Screwtape the Wizard pros:
Dragon one-shotting Shivering Touch plus Spectral Hand
Becomes quadratic from the double-digit levels
Can do everything you can do, but better (but not as many times per day)
Flexible

Cons:
Squishy
Goes nova then haz nothin' to do whole day long

You know, I think I'd better go with the succubus. (goes make character sheet)

[Azthor]

Fool, who do you think will be better both now and in the near future?

A succubus bard (which right now would be just a succubus) or Screwtape the Stronghearted Halfling Wizard/Force Missile Mage?

I'll do the pro/con thing too!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Succubus pros:
Greater Teleport(self) at will
Suggestion with a DC of 27 at will
Energy drain with a touch attack (a kiss or an embrace, to be exact)
FLY
Damage resistance
Assorted resistances
SR (which I think would scale for 11 + level).

Cons:
Few actual damaging abilities
LA +6

Screwtape the Wizard pros:
Dragon one-shotting Shivering Touch plus Spectral Hand
Becomes quadratic from the double-digit levels
Can do everything you can do, but better (but not as many times per day)
Flexible

Cons:
Squishy
Goes nova then haz nothin' to do whole day long

You know, I think I'd better go with the succubus. (goes make character sheet)

Givent he level we are starting at, a plain Troll Barbarian is quite effective.

[Skyrunner]

Unfun! D:<

I'm going to be a succubus bard~  >_<

[Azthor]

Unfun! D:<

I'm going to be a succubus bard~  >_<

Just don't abuse Bluff, or I might accidentaly mistake Planar Turning for Turn Undead.

Also, Fool, no, the Dragon class you wanted to use isn't even remotely OP.

[The Fool]

I know, but the breath weapon scaled at 1d6 per level with a 1d4 wait time. If I wanted I could make it 1d4-1. Combine that with multiattack while you wait and you have a fun character. I think you underestimate multiattack.

EDIT: Just so you know, this dragon was an attempt to get away from powergaming. In one of the Arena threads Sky mentioned one of the scariest builds she'd seen. That was mine. What's funny is that I could make it so much more powerful by swapping a few feats around.

[Azthor]

I know, but the breath weapon scaled at 1d6 per level with a 1d4 wait time. If I wanted I could make it 1d4-1. Combine that with multiattack while you wait and you have a fun character. I think you underestimate multiattack.

EDIT: Just so you know, this dragon was an attempt to get away from powergaming. In one of the Arena threads Sky mentioned one of the scariest builds she'd seen. That was mine. What's funny is that I could make it so much more powerful by swapping a few feats around.

Show me the build.

[The Fool]

Here's the sheet.

It's level 14 right now with a useless feat taking up the level 12 spot. It takes a 1 BAB hit to take 4 levels in scout, but it gains fast movement, which I wanted at the time. I traded off several things when I went into ranger, such as the animal companion, for things I would use, like distracting attack.

He can take a ten foot step 3/day to full-attack with skirmish damage, but the number of steps is really only limited to your tumble bonus. If you can make a DC40 tumble check you can take a step like that. He has a reach of 10 feet as well, but that isn't shown in the damage really. Skirmish works on everything but oozes right now thanks to favored enemies and the swift hunter feat.

The damage for one full attack with skirmish damage is... 5d6 + 47 + 3d6 (electric) + 20d6 (skirmish) for an average of 145 damage (75-215). Keep in mind that this is at level 14 and that there is more that can be done before level 20.

EDIT: Oh, and everyone he hits is flat-footed until their turn after the attack.

[Azthor]

Isn't the will save tempting fate though?

[Araph]

Wyvern is okay because why not.

I think I'll make another Succubus, and this time go for a bard route, instead of sorc as Nieve. Is that OK with Araph?

Also, can I take the Outsider Naturalization feat for free?(All it does is my subtype is changed from Extraplanar to Native, preventing me from being Banished, Dismissed or other unsavory things.)

Go the bard route? How? You don't have any levels to spend after LA. The feat is okay, though.