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[G-Flex]

I'm not afraid of police because there's > a 99% chance that they are doing their job correctly...so they screw up sometimes, who cares?  Bad things happen, that's called life.

You're kidding, right? Abuses of police power happen pretty much constantly.

Also: Regardless of how often you think they happen, police officers are rarely actually punished for it. A cop can virtually kill a person in cold blood and get away with it. This is the world we live in.

Why should I flip out about a small number of cops who, in the heat of the moment, might evaluate the situation wrong?

Because they aren't generally held very liable for their mistakes, even when flagrant negligence and abuse of power are involved. That's why.


I grew up in a fairly well-off, suburban town without a high crime rate, and I and my family are middle-class white dudes. And yet damn near every time we've interacted with the police, they've shown flagrant disregard for doing their job properly. I've been hassled by cops two or three times just for walking down the road at night, and my dad once got pepper-sprayed for having the audacity to try to alert a police officer responding to a scene that a man was beating the hell out of a woman ten feet away. Oh, and if you're going to spout off with "mistakes happen!" again: That cop misrepresented what happened on the official report. Not much of an excuse for that.


If a doctor fucks up negligently, they get sued for malpractice and possibly worse. If a cop not only fucks up negligently, but lies about it or does it willfully or with severe disregard for performing the job at hand or actually protecting people, people just say "it's a hard job" and damn near nothing ever happens to them.

[Sowelu]

“Why didn't you get your dog when I told you to get your dog?" questioned Officer Griffin.

What a d-bag.

In audio captured on Officer Griffin’s dashboard camera, you can hear the officer give Paxton commands to put his hands up and to control his dog.

Dude, he did say it.

And...I must just live in the one part of the country where the cops are good guys.  Who knows.  They've always been helpful and friendly around me.  Hell they even like dogs.  We had one neighbor who called the cops because he thought it sounded like we were abusing one of our dogs...  officer shows up, dog comes running up to the fence all whining and yelping and sounding pitiful.  Officer correctly concludes that this dog, while friendly and well-treated, is simply the /whiniest puppy to ever exist/.

[G-Flex]

“Why didn't you get your dog when I told you to get your dog?" questioned Officer Griffin.

What a d-bag.

In audio captured on Officer Griffin’s dashboard camera, you can hear the officer give Paxton commands to put his hands up and to control his dog.

Dude, he did say it.

The police department erased the part of the tape where the dog was shot. They literally tampered with their own evidence in order to destroy the part where the event actually occurred. Are you actually going to defend this, or dismiss it as a simple mistake?

[Sowelu]

That doesn't sound like tampering with evidence.  There's no claim that the copy they gave reporters was official evidence.  Furthermore, they're under no obligation to give reporters jack.  And yet they did, and apparently made it clear what they removed (not that it was hard to tell, so who knows).

[Lord Dullard]

Sowelu, I am not saying 'there are no good cops'. That would be an indefensible position - in fact, I respect most of them in my community. OTOH I also think it's an indefensible position to defend this particular cop, or at least this set of actions on his part. I mean, come on, man.

And yeah - think about this: "PUT YOUR HANDS UP AND CONTROL YOUR DOG!"

How the fuck are those two commands going to work together?

The cop was not only an asshole for being so trigger-happy, but also an idiot for giving those two orders simultaneously.

[G-Flex]

Sowelu, I am not saying 'there are no good cops'. That would be an indefensible position - in fact, I respect most of them in my community. OTOH I also think it's an indefensible position to defend this particular cop, or at least this set of actions on his part. I mean, come on, man.

And yeah - think about this: "PUT YOUR HANDS UP AND CONTROL YOUR DOG!"

How the fuck are those two commands going to work together?

The cop was not only an asshole for being so trigger-happy, but also an idiot for giving those two orders simultaneously.

No, see, it's a hard job. It wouldn't matter if he had shot the guy, either. Or thrown a hand grenade into the building and accidentally killed a kid. Or willfully tasered his grandmother twelve times in the back. Because it's a hard job, and people make mistakes, and we should forgive police officers for silly little slip-ups like flashbanging children and kicking incapacitated, handcuffed people in the face. That kind of stuff just happens, you know?

Fun fact: Some states have actually tried to criminalize recording a police officer while he's on duty. Think about that for a second.

[Flying Dice]

So because 'some' or 'most' cops do their jobs properly, the ones that don't get free rein to kill people and animals in cold blood and then have their screwups covered up because "That's only a few of them, suck it up, shit happens." or "It's a tough job."? Bullshit. If they have this sort of power and authority (which they probably shouldn't), they should damn well be far better at their jobs than most other people. If a grocery store bagger screws up, someone loses a few minutes. If a cop screws up, a person or pet loses their life.

[Shinotsa]

We're all angry. We're all dog lovers. But let's try and calm down for a second.

The cop came to the situation with a gun drawn when, in most situations, a police baton or a flashlight would have been a much more logical solution. I have no clue what the domestic call was, but since they're calling it a domestic and not attempted murder it probably didn't involve a deadly weapon.

My parents were both cops in the city that topped Baltimore for murder rate when they were both on the force. It was a scary place. Neither of them shot at anything in thirteen years of combined service. My father hit a great deal of things with his flashlight. It was his problem solver when things got out of hand. If he needed his gun, he called for enough backup that the gun wouldn't need to be fired, because only an insane man would try to take on a good number of armed police officers.

This officer handled the situation poorly and should be reprimanded. People have been fired for less. And, from what I've heard, there are very few good police officers. It attracts people who want the power, or people who are too dumb to not let it change them. It's an entitled group of people who do a vital service, but if we don't keep them in check they certainly will not do it themselves.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm too burnt out on seeing these abuses to form any complex statements about it right now. Fucking cops.

[Lord Dullard]

Yeah, getting there, myself.

I do sympathize with the cops who are put into situations in which they are forced to make a snap judgment that ends up being wrong. I'm sure it's happened.

That said, I can't think of any good reason this guy should have even been walking up to the house with his gun drawn. Jackass. Thank God a kid didn't run around the corner at him or something.

[G-Flex]

So because 'some' or 'most' cops do their jobs properly, the ones that don't get free rein to kill people and animals in cold blood and then have their screwups covered up because "That's only a few of them, suck it up, shit happens." or "It's a tough job."? Bullshit. If they have this sort of power and authority (which they probably shouldn't), they should damn well be far better at their jobs than most other people. If a grocery store bagger screws up, someone loses a few minutes. If a cop screws up, a person or pet loses their life.

Yeah. Also: If a grocery store bagger screws up, they could get reprimanded or fired, and if a cop screws up, their ass gets covered more than an Inuit's. The job is tough, yes, and dangerous, and risky, and that's why we should actually hold them to high standards instead of letting them (sometimes literally) get away with murder.


Oh, I mentioned cops kicking people. That happened here. A cop kicked a woman in the face, who was on the ground and in handcuffs, with police-issue boots. Right in the head. Again, she was on the ground and in handcuffs. This was a case where it actually did eventually get to trial, and he was found guilty.... and then sentenced to a suspended sentence with probation. A slap on the wrist. Honestly, it's surprising it even went that far.

[kaijyuu]

The tape being modified is the most disconcerting thing about the whole deal, tbh. People who listen to it will know exactly what they're getting into, so it's stupid to try and "protect" anyone from graphic violence.



Side note: The following are excellent ways to undermine any argument ever:
1) Association fallacies
2) Jumping to conclusions

Try to avoid weak inductive arguments.

[forsaken1111]

Regarding the topic: Personally, if I was the cop responding to a situation in which I felt I needed to draw my gun and a dog started running at me, I wouldn't hesitate to kill it if I felt threatened. As they said, the story in the OP is unfortunate but shit happens. Sue the person who gave the incorrect address if you must place blame, the officer did nothing wrong according to that story.

[nenjin]

This will probably come across as highly unpopular but....

Cops sign up for a dangerous job that puts them directly in the harm's way everyday. That is an occupational risk they accept. And I grant police officers every reasonable right to save their own ass, because I know I'd do the same thing.

But that is not a license to react violently to every perceived threat. I wouldn't trade 10 dead criminals or 10 living police officers for just one 1 innocent life. The power to use deadly force is not a license to use it without restraint. In fact, it demands the highest level of restraint, because they're policing their own. Enough restraint to suffer a dog bite in the line of duty, or at least wait for the thing to bite before defending yourself? Yes. Unequivocally yes, or you don't have the rocks to truly do your duty or to serve the public to the degree they deserve.

Since 9/11, and in truth long since before that, American law enforcement has behaved like the military and asked for the same kind of immunity for the consequences of their choices. No one passed a law, but law enforcement got millions upon millions in new funding backed by the unquestioning admiration of the majority of Americans.

I'm personally fed up with this because it's become a systemic pattern of behavior in the last decade. Cops do something terrible in the line of duty and they get excused for it because it was in the line of duty. They get the same benefit of the doubt and moral absolution that soldiers do in combat. That's what needs to stop, and a message needs to be sent to law enforcement that we expect restraint. If that microsecond of thought puts more officers at risk, I count that as the nature of the job. I'm sick of cops killing things because they know they will ultimately not be held accountable for it.

Personally, if I was the cop responding to a situation in which I felt I needed to draw my gun and a dog started running at me, I wouldn't hesitate to kill it if I felt threatened.

So do we have the right to question if he was correct in deciding he needed to draw his gun? Or is he immune from "civilian" judgment on that matter?

[Lord Dullard]

I suspect that if all of the dogs in the neighborhood had run up to him - as dogs will pretty much always do, whether they're barking over their territory or just because they want to sniff and investigate, or because they are the .01% of dogs that actually do intend to bite - and he had systematically shot twenty dogs in a row 'in self-defense', some of you would still be jumping to defend him.