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Author Topic: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?  (Read 20298 times)

dbay

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One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« on: April 06, 2012, 04:12:34 pm »

First a story, then a plea for suggestions on how to avoid it next time.

Welcome to Hailoils, year 5. Here's the rundown:
Population: 250, including soldiers. 95 were children, though.
Military:
-20 danger-room trained, unstoppable, full steel armed and armoured axedwarves (the whole shebang; 3 masterwork mail shirts, a breastplate, etc. etc., legendary every skill)
-50 mostly untrained marksdwarves wearing their clothes, crossbows, quivers, and shields. I draft most migrants into this force, and only use them when I'm under a serious siege (fortress defense mod is on) and have to seal the fort from the outside
This fort was one of my best yet. It had water death traps to drown the trade depot (ha! elves), magma pumped up near the surface for forges to crank out the huge amount of steel arms and armour necessary for my troops, eight legendary miners. it was awesome.
It also had periodic 'profane gloom' clouds, which turned anything they hit into thralls. This wasn't a big problem because I built a really twisty/airlocked entrance and didn't go to the surface much. It basically just led to the occasional barn owl or dingo getting thralled and attacking. I had an array of cage and weapon traps to deal with these.

Here's what happened:
A cloud shows up, so I order everyone inside. I don't bother sealing the entrance, because I've found it to be unnecessary. However, despite the burrow command, one of my axe lords runs outside, maybe to grab some gear or something. He gets turned into a thrall instantly.
me: meh. He's replaceable, and he'll just get cage trapped as soon as he... okay, nevermind. The traps ignored him completely. He sprints clear over the cage traps and crossbow traps and serrated steel disc traps, they don't trigger at all. I know that the profane gloom thralls aren't trapavoid because I've been catching wildlife, so what happened there? Are thralled dorfs immune to traps?
I keep my elite troops training near the entrance of the fortress, so he has to go through them to get inside. At this point, I figure things are bad but not so bad - the military will cut him to pieces, but I might lose one or two.

What happened: in a few seconds, the ~10 dwarves there are unconscious or asleep(!?) (but not dead) and the thrall enters the fort proper. I activate the marksdwarves, thinking a hail of *silver bolts* will put him in place. I have pillboxes where they can shoot into the entrance hallway without being in danger.
He ignores the bolts entirely, and the militia empty their quivers. At 25 bolts per dwarf and 60 guys firing, he shrugged off 1500 bolts. He has a bruised lip and broken rib after all of this, and that's all.
The other 9 axe lords are spread around the fort doing stupid tasks like drinking, sleeping, and upgrading their equipment, and trickle at him one by one to be knocked out or crippled. It appears that the thrall couldn't get through their steel armour, but broke enough bones and severed enough nerves that these dwarves were out of the picture.

During this period, of course, he's slaughtering all the civilians he comes across.

In ten minutes, he killed the entire fortress, except for the comatose axe lords. It was fast enough that there wasn't a single casualty to madness or tantrum spirals.


...How did this happen? Those axe lords have killed FB's and GCS's and entire sieges of war elephants single-handedly! I understand that the thrall gets extra strength, but even then the weight of numbers was firmly on my side, right? And why didn't my traps get him? I thought thralls didn't keep the skills of their prior lives, right? so, this was all perpetrated by a completely untrained axedwarf. To be fair, I guess he is the first person I've fought in this game wearing *steel armour*, but my dwarves had it too and I have occasionally lost them in battle. I've held off the circus with militaries less powerful than the one I had.

Naryar

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2012, 04:16:53 pm »

As from what I've heard, thralls are basically tougher than demons.

Orky_Boss

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2012, 04:19:02 pm »

I have no idea. Toughest thing I've fought with the exception of the circus was zombie giant eagles, so I have no idea...

*takes on a russian accent*

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Muffindog

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2012, 04:23:19 pm »

When raw power doesn't help you have to use your wits. If you can't kill anything by traditional means, lure it in a trap and drop a cave-in on it. Everything caught underneath will be killed in an instant.

Thralls and sponges are pretty much indestructible.
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dbay

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2012, 04:23:56 pm »

Now that I've thought about it, I have a theory:

1. The thrall could only slightly injure my axedwarves
2. The slight injuries resulted in unconsciousness and some broken bones (but no severed limbs or anything)
3. My axedwarves could only slightly hurt the thrall
4. The slight injuries resulted in nothing because thralls are immune to pain and unconsciousness.

Steel armoured thralls might well be the most powerful beings in the game. I think you'd have to use extremely powerful bludgeoning weaponry on them, like elite silver or even platinum hammers, and my troops were all carrying axes. I think bolts do blunt damage, though, cause of a bug? Not sure why they were so ineffective. Maybe lack of training.

Nil Eyeglazed

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2012, 04:24:28 pm »

It's interesting that he didn't get caged.  I made a huskification chamber, turned a few tame peacocks in husks, and they got caged fine.  I could definitely see why it might not cage things (all thrall/husk/zombie does is add a bunch of tags), but I can't imagine why it wouldn't cage dwarves but it would tame animals.

Bolts-- totally useless.  Same goes for blunt weapons.  Only two ways to kill a thrall: chop off its head, or bisect it.  In your case, this was complicated significantly by the fact that your thrall was wearing steel armor.  Very hard to bisect/decapitate something in full steel.

If you had managed to get all of your military against the thrall at once, you would have stood a chance.  As it was, the thrall was clearly superior to any single axedwarf you sent its way.  Which makes sense: it had roughly the same skills as those axedwarfs, roughly the same equipment, but it was immune to pain, blood loss, paralysis, severs, nausea, etc.  Plus stronger, tougher.  Maybe slower, maybe not.

Edit: I've been thinking about getting a candy-clad thrall and shoving him in a danger room.  Talk about super-soldier.
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Girlinhat

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2012, 04:26:01 pm »

Thralls keep their skills and their equipment.  The transformation from live to thrall incurs no death penalty.  It's still the same creature, just with new tokens attached.  This means that all skills remain, and because they don't die, they don't drop their equipment either.  However, thralls do entirely ignore pain and loss of limbs, no longer bleed, breath, eat, drink, etc.  The only thing to kill them is extreme violence, usually the removal of the head or the severing of the upper body from the lower body.

Since it didn't die, and is still technically a member of your civ, traps don't trigger.

Since it doesn't tire or feel pain, only a nerve sever, limb removal, or complete death will slow down a thrall at all.

Since it's still wearing steel, you're not going to damage it very easily.

What you have here, is a dwarven axelord.  An Axelord.  A creature of unimaginable fury capable of cutting down Deep Terrors and slashing goblin sieges apart with one blow per greenskin.  A creature possessed of such skill as to render warfare impossible as it dodges almost everything, and what isn't dodged is deflected by a shield or simply bounces off armor.

An Axelord Thrall is all the terror and brutality of a dwarven warrior, minus the pain, minus the fatigue, and gaining all the strength and durability of thralldom.  Nothing short of a cave-in or adamantine upright spears would daunt such an abomination to all things holy.  In fact, an abomination to all things unholy as well.  An Axelord Thrall is very likely the single most dangerous creature in the world - bar none.

I'm just surprised it took 10 minutes.  With that powerhouse, I'd think quicker.

Although, to answer the question: You can stop such a thing by using cave-ins to atom-smash the thrall.

dbay

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2012, 04:27:12 pm »

When raw power doesn't help you have to use your wits. If you can't kill anything by traditional means, lure it in a trap and drop a cave-in on it. Everything caught underneath will be killed in an instant.

Thralls and sponges are pretty much indestructible.

I thought of that, but there wasn't really any way for me to organize my civilians into anything. The thrall stuck himself in the hallway that all of my other fortress areas branched off of, so you had to go through him to get anywhere. that means practically any job would get cancelled, or you'd die trying to pull it off.

ydaraishy

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2012, 04:28:46 pm »

I know that the profane gloom thralls aren't trapavoid because I've been catching wildlife, so what happened there? Are thralled dorfs immune to traps?

Dwarven citisens are trapavoid because they knew where the traps were before they got thralled.  All thralling clouds do is add a syndrome to living things; they don't necessarily have to switch sides completely.

I thought thralls didn't keep the skills of their prior lives, right?

Actually, they do.  And not only that, but they're still capable of learning. That axedwarf was getting stronger for every dwarf he was killing.

To be fair, it really didn't help that he had steel armour on.  Had he been unarmed, he would've been much easier to deal with.
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Naryar

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2012, 04:29:03 pm »

Build a dwarven atom smasher, lure the thrall under it and squish it ?

Corai

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2012, 04:30:02 pm »

Time for !!SCIENCE!!


Im gonna pit a Steel Clad legendary axe-dwarf thrall against 10 legendary Platinum Hammers, Ill tell you results.


EDIT: No !!SCIENCE!! since thrall is not a arena useable type, sorry.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 04:34:12 pm by Corai »
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KodKod

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2012, 04:32:24 pm »

Pray for a Lasher Lord.
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dbay

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2012, 04:33:57 pm »

Time for !!SCIENCE!!


Im gonna pit a Steel Clad legendary axe-dwarf thrall against 10 legendary Platinum Hammers, Ill tell you results.

Thanks! I don't usually bother with hammers because I've found steel axes cut through any armour my enemies carry like butter, and watching all the bits go flying is just so much fun. I might have to change my tactics now, though

Girlinhat

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2012, 04:34:37 pm »

Pray for a Lasher Lord.
Worthless.  Whips hurt by chipping bone and causing creatures to give in to pain.  Husks and thralls feel no pain.  10,000 slade whips wielded by 10,000 lasher lords would do nothing.

ydaraishy

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Re: One Thrall Killed 249 Dorfs. Help?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2012, 04:35:27 pm »

Time for !!SCIENCE!!


Im gonna pit a Steel Clad legendary axe-dwarf thrall against 10 legendary Platinum Hammers, Ill tell you results.

I've mentioned the husk arena simulation in the last thread, which I've found is useful for testing them.  I'll repeat it here for anyone who wants to do !!SCIENCE!!.

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