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[nenjin]

It's not that I think DMS was bad. It was just average. The story was average. The combat was average. The mechanics were exceedingly average. About the only thing I thought was top notch was environments; but they were sterile, inactive things, where you got your blatant summoning points and air ducts for drones and...that was pretty much it. It felt like a very by-the-numbers game with the veneer of SR.

[Levi]

The problem I had, that made me stop playing, was that I had little interest in reading so much text in such a small window.  I like knowing the story, but there's only so much time in a game I want to spend reading it.  Its the same reason I stopped playing EYE: Divine Cybermancy.  They voice-acted (and quite well) the opening sequence, then 2 minutes into the game: all text.  Even the main plot.  And not a small amount of text either.  Here's one screen someone took talking to a main-character NPC.  That's one screen.  The entire conversation is probably ten or twelve screens and you can't skip it.  Well, you can keep hitting the "next section" button and randomly pick decision points, but it still takes an ungodly amount of time to get through.

Yeah, actually I've got that problem with a lot of games too.  As resolutions keep getting bigger I have to squint more and more to read anything.  Especially since I usually play on my tv from my couch.  I wish more games would give a "Scale UI" option.

[Neonivek]

Anyhow I am not sure I'd even would want to kickstart this next project given how the first came out.

Eh, the first one wasn't that bad.

No you are right...

But honestly that is damning enough.

[scriver]

I can't believe I haven't posted to watch this thread yet.

[puke]

It's not that I think DMS was bad. It was just average. The story was average.

I'm in agreement with all your other points that I did not quote, but I really thought the story was pretty good.  Well above average anyway, based on the other games I've played -- and I always thought I had pretty good exposure.

I'd be super interested in hearing what games you think have above-average or even good to great stories, so that I can put them on my shopping list.

No sarcasm here.  I am interested in hearing your thoughts.

[Toady One]

(pruned thread, don't go back there)

[Bouchart]

I enjoyed Dead Man's Switch.  The plot twist could have been handled a little bit better and there should have been more decking, but it was a quality game.

[nenjin]

It's not that I think DMS was bad. It was just average. The story was average.

I'm in agreement with all your other points that I did not quote, but I really thought the story was pretty good.  Well above average anyway, based on the other games I've played -- and I always thought I had pretty good exposure.

I'd be super interested in hearing what games you think have above-average or even good to great stories, so that I can put them on my shopping list.

No sarcasm here.  I am interested in hearing your thoughts.

I think Dark Souls 1 and to a lesser extent Dark Souls 2 have good stories, of the weird and somewhat incomprehensible fantasy kind.

The Assassin's Creed stories, in isolation, are decent although I'm sure many might disagree with me on that. While each character's story arcs are largely the same (kill dudes), it's got all the trimmings and fixin's to flesh it out and make them believable, get you invested in the characters and the action. The meta-story of the games however I'm not all that crazy about.

Batman Arkahm Ect... are all pretty well-crafted Batman stories. Their only failing is the need to cram the entire catalog of Batman villains into each game. But they really nail being Batman and a great immersive experience.

Binding of Issac has a good story in that it's very loosely told and subject to a lot of interpretation. Also you have to not be repulsed by the game in general to even appreciate it.

Bioshock 1 has a pretty good story, depending on your tolerance for Levine-style narratives. The next two games weren't as good though (even if Infinite is a much more lavish product.)

Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines has an enjoyable story. Very flavorful, great little vignettes and things that color the world. Unfortunately though another one with a kinda flat and rushed ending.

Deus-Ex is sort in the same vein of quality and execution, except cyberpunk instead of vampires.

Hotline Miami for a another twisted story loosely told that is open to interpretation, but still gets in your head a bit.

The Witcher has a good story most of the way through, until kinda tanking in the end. Haven't really finished Witcher 2 yet.

Spec Ops: The Line has a pretty good story for what it's trying to do: have a good story. As a game it's a by the numbers shooter that is really just there to provide an interlude to the story bits. Good if you want to sit down with a war story for a few hours.

The Stanley Parable, like Spec Ops, isn't much of a game but has a great story that is the entire reason for the game. Its story is....well I can't really say without spoiling so I won't. But its intent and the telling made it an experience worth having.

The Hitman series has always had a pretty good story, up until the most recent one.

Call of Juarez Gunslinger actually has a surprisingly good story for a western FPS. It's got some entertaining flourishes throughout that did a good job of keeping me engaged in what's going on.

Those are kinda off the top of my head. To give you a sense of what I consider a good story, it either has to get in my head a little with the themes or provide me a believable and immersive experience, so I at least care about what I'm doing and what the world is doing, to some extent. And it can't be taking the piss with my time and attention...i.e. Borderlands.

Again, I think my problem with DMS is that it wasn't very well supported by everything else and...according to a friend who has read a fair amount of SR novels, it's basically an amalgam of a couple different classic storylines. BTL users, insect spirits, some cult, ect...Compared to the other two Shadowrun video games, which have pretty big mysteries who solve (what happened to me? What happened to my brother?), DMS didn't really have me that engaged by "Who killed me brah, so you can get paid." I didn't feel like there were a lot of great SR things happening either. No talking to Animal Spirits. Just a corp run or two. No big epic Matrix runs. Again, it wasn't badly written, I think it was just a little too comfortable with its subject matter and was going through the motions a little.

[puke]

Call of Juarez Gunslinger actually has a surprisingly good story

Ever play Red Dead Revolver?  Got poor reviews but a trusted source told me it was awesome.

good list, with a few surprises.  have had DS in my inventory for a while, but the premise seemed dumb so I never touched them.  May have to change that.

DMS was indeed a rehash, but for me it hit all of the right tropes and brushed against some of the most iconic modules that it really felt like classic SR.

I would agree that it would not have that effect for someone less familiar with the franchise.

Berlin does a better job of standing on its own.  The stories you are motivated as a player to discover are largely those of your companions though.  The main story that your character is dealing with gets grey quickly, and there is a certain ammount of "why are we doing this?" That sets in.

This may make it a better story, though possibly less satisfying.

[Neonivek]

Dark Souls 1 and 2  Basic plot on the outside but with a deeper richer story if you dive deeper. Dark Souls 1 being better, but not so much so that Dark Souls 2 feels weak.

Assassin's creed starts off good but goes downhill with each and every game mostly because of the sheer narrative backflips it needs to do in order to continue its narrative.

Binding of Isaac's story is basic with vagueness that allows you to pour as much into the story as you wish... but I honestly don't think there is as much there are people project... Especially since I kind of know the authors well enough to know their sense of humor.

Bioshock 1 is a good story for the MOST part. Though its strength, like Dark Souls, is in world building. The Plot Plot of Bioshock is often moronic but the side stories are always many times more interesting, cohesive, and intelligent.

Deus-Ex is WAY too vast for me to comment. It is a lot about world building with trying to suck your character into this world with more science fantastical elements. Basically it is a combination of setting and personal character.

Hotline Miami I don't think is as open to interpretation as you might think. They pretty much remove the ambiguity later. But its story is an excuse plot anyhow. The main draw of the story is in its style and ambiance as well as its ambiguity early on.

The Witcher I haven't played almost at all but to me its main draw is in the personal story.

Stanley Parable is a game based on a metaphor and the exploration of theme. Its main draw is in the art of its story.

----

But I think here is the thing... there are a few ways a game can have a good story

1) It can have great characters interacting
2) It can have a great setting
3) It can have a single great character lead
4) It can have a great plot
5) It can have great atmosphere and style
6) It can have deep intrigue and depth
7) Artsy fartsy

Games can have less of one but still be considered a good story. Simplicity or complexity doesn't matter so much.

Again, I think my problem with DMS is that it wasn't very well supported by everything else and...according to a friend who has read a fair amount of SR novels, it's basically an amalgam of a couple different classic storylines.

Basically I think what you are saying is that there is no focus to sort of propel the story into being great.

Shadowrun is a good setting if you want to actually create a story as you can do just about anything... but the trick to me is you want to incorporate the MANY elements you have to include more organically into the setting when you present it to people. So the Stone Soup Setting doesn't start feeling like a Stew.

---

Also for me the WORST game with the best story? Bloodnet.

Never play that game... but honestly I liked the story for the most part as well as its world building. Honestly sometimes the dialog makes the world just come alive.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Game threads never die.

Hey, picked this up and played a bit on the Ipad.
Bought it full-price for PC. Question:
Should I play DMS first, or is there some user-created content that would go well before-hand & import the character from that? (liiike SR-Unlimited)

Same question for dragonfall.

[puke]

most of the missions stand alone. 

the official ones dont include character import natively, but I think there are mods or hacks that let you do it?  Not sure.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Good to know with the character import.

So, can the old UGCs access DF content if you own the standalone, or did they break everything when they 'upgraded' the dlc into a standalone?