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I consider it an essential part of Dwaf Fortress, and can't play without it.

119 (18.4%)

I use it for pretty screenshots, but otherwise don't use it during play.

211 (32.7%)

I only try it occasionally.

174 (27%)

I have no idea why I'm even in this thread, I don't use it.

141 (21.9%)

Total Members Voted: 642

[Scoops Novel]

Out of curiosity, why is stonesense done in the graphics engine that it has?

[Octopusfluff]

Out of curiosity, why is stonesense done in the graphics engine that it has?

As opposed to...?

[Scoops Novel]

Out of curiosity, why is stonesense done in the graphics engine that it has?

As opposed to...?

Something shinier? Especially with the old versions.

[Octopusfluff]

Out of curiosity, why is stonesense done in the graphics engine that it has?

As opposed to...?

Something shinier? Especially with the old versions.

... like what, a gold foil limited edition?

[Scoops Novel]

Humor me, but, especially considering that the old versions weren't real time, what stopped this from being rendered in say cryengine?

[Nopenope]

Maybe the proprietary license?

[Rose]

Probably because cryengine is 3d and would be pretty useless for stonesense, which is 2d.

[therahedwig]

Humor me, but, especially considering that the old versions weren't real time, what stopped this from being rendered in say cryengine?

Cryengine sucks waay too much power for stonesense's purposes.
While certain graphics calculations can be done better with 3d acceleration, Cryengine's capabilities in the 2d world are actually not much better than the library we're using now. After all, what is amazing about Cryengine, is how it optimizes and simplifies many aspects of 3D graphics(in particular, the ever computation heavy topic of proper lighting).

If you're asking why we're not having 3d models: Too much effort, too high of a barrier for competent artists to contribute to stonesense.
Stonesense's simple graphics and high flexibility (and devoted maintainer) is sorta why it's the longest active visualiser, with the best support for all details that dwarf fortress gives us.

[Octopusfluff]

Humor me, but, especially considering that the old versions weren't real time, what stopped this from being rendered in say cryengine?

Humor me, but what is it you think cryengine could possibly provide in terms of benefits?

I mean, to partially enumerate (and somewhat expand on therahedwig's notes on) why it's a bad idea:
a) it's kind of a mediocre engine for its category of product
b) even if it were a good example of a 3d engine for an indie project (it isn't. Among MANY other concerns, dwarf fortress and thus stonesense are crossplatform, and that isn't even the biggest issue), it's still a 3d engine, and stonesense was designed to be 2d
c) even if you were designing a 3d visualizer, your biggest obstacle for shininess of a project like this is not the graphics engine itself, but the quality of art assets (Just take a look at any of the extant 3d visualizers, and if you think they are insufficiently shiny, it's almost certainly not a pure software issue)

[Scoops Novel]

I ask because long term, I'd quite like to have scenes rendered in 3d -say, combat- and I'm trying to understand the technical limitations. I'm not asking to change anything about how the game plays, just how it's displayed to the player (my thread on the topic: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139971.0). We have 20 years til 1.0, it's not impossible. Cry-engine was simply a random example. Not worth crucifying the noob octopus, though i don't mean that harshly.

[Octopusfluff]

I ask because long term, I'd quite like to have scenes rendered in 3d -say, combat- and I'm trying to understand the technical limitations. I'm not asking to change anything about how the game plays, just how it's displayed to the player (my thread on the topic: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139971.0). We have 20 years til 1.0, it's not impossible. Cry-engine was simply a random example. Not worth crucifying the noob octopus, though i don't mean that harshly.

There's so many misconceptions at work here I think I'd need to be drunk to ask the correct probing questions to narrow things down. Or very high.

[Scoops Novel]

The questions open.

[therahedwig]

Novel Scoops, I can understand that you have not much of an oversight of the needs of 3d.

The main argument remains that not many people know how to do 3d models. It's a highly technical art, and even with software like Blender lowering the (money) barrier, it just isn't common enough. There's just far more 2d artists than 3d artists in the world, and thus because stonesense is 2d it has way more contributers than say, overseer.
On top of that, making a proper 3d model costs about ten times longer to make. (I am actually trained in 3d art, so I'm not pulling this out of my ass )

Secondly, dfhack gives us a lot of information, but it doesn't give enough information to determine when a dwarf is performing an action. It can tell that the dwarf is given a job, but it can't determine when the dwarf is actually doing it.
So for example, you will never see your dwarves in the proper pose for slashing that goblin, or even moving smoothly from tile to tile.

Similarly, 3d programming isn't exactly easy either.

There's programs like Overseer you should take a look at, they were abandoned, but attempting to do 3d visualisation.

[Scoops Novel]

Thanks. Apparently there doing 3d printing in the overseer thread, here's hoping it resurrects. Does animation depend on information toady is unprepared to release then?

[Dirst]

Thanks. Apparently there doing 3d printing in the overseer thread, here's hoping it resurrects. Does animation depend on information toady is unprepared to release then?

Animation depends on having a "rigged" or "articulated" MOB (basically a virtual skeleton within the 3D figure) and a set of scripts to animate and pose that skeleton.  The rendering engine will handle details like "forming a fist" working regardless of arm position, or merging two animations together (such as walking and turning the head to the left).

Rigging is the easy part, not to imply that it's trivial.  DF would require a huge number of animation scripts, and it would require a very large number of models.  The selection of rigged models available for download (or even for purchase) doesn't come close to covering what would be needed.