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I consider it an essential part of Dwaf Fortress, and can't play without it.

119 (18.4%)

I use it for pretty screenshots, but otherwise don't use it during play.

211 (32.7%)

I only try it occasionally.

174 (27%)

I have no idea why I'm even in this thread, I don't use it.

141 (21.9%)

Total Members Voted: 642

[fricy]

That said, the SDL code for stonesense is openly available (and is in fact how DFHack inhabits the same address space as DF now), so directly going in and wiring it in would be the correct direction to take there. 

Thanks for the clarification, concerning everything! I'm mostly just idly theorizing about viewing DF in multiple windows (to see more than 1 layer at once, normally, without stonesense, in live game time, though only interacting with the main one). I know it would be hard but was wondering if it would be impossible and I figured someone like you would have a few paragraphs of relevant information (and you did, so thank you again).

I'm assuming you still can't see things in stonesense live as the game progresses, otherwise my question was a waste Haven't used stonesense in a while but couldn't find anything about whether there was progress making it live or if that passed me by a while back.

warmist is working on something like that. Here, have this thread: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=128487.45

[Rose]

Stonesense updates ten times per second, more or less.

Don't know if you call that live or not, but that's what's there.

Also, stonesense doesn't use SDL for the second window, it uses Allegro, as the version of SDL that DF uses does not support multiple windows.

[Isher]

Stonesense updates ten times per second, more or less.

Don't know if you call that live or not, but that's what's there.

Also, stonesense doesn't use SDL for the second window, it uses Allegro, as the version of SDL that DF uses does not support multiple windows.

Aha, that is what I was wanting (I would call that live). I could swear last I checked it could only do like... still renders from saves or something? Or maybe I have been confused about this for years.

I was thinking of having a few layers with transparency stacked on top of the normal window like a pseudo 3d top-down view, with the squares getting bigger or smaller so sortof blasting up at you.

I was actually working on a roguelike like that and then I realized that I'd want to view the sides of the squares, thus cubes, thus etc. etc. oh that's minecraft. Meh. But with DF one wouldn't need sides, just a few topdown layers.

But isometric is less confusing to say the least, and I'm glad it's a live view. You guys rock. Now I need more free time.

EDIT
@fricy - Oh I see you linked to page 4 on purpose, and all that is there and of course has been suggested a kabillion times. Ok. Well I'm off to do something else then. Thanks for the post.

[Caldfir]

What I didn't realize until I worked on these sprites is that a very large portion of the work is not drawing, or setting up the xml, but rather just fiddling with pixels.  There's no other way to describe it than that.  On 32x32 sprites it's pretty easy to keep track of stuff, but the large sprites are just, well, fiddly. 

Anyway, testing out elves...



...yyyyeahhhhh.  Alright, well it looks like the ears are going to need to be separate, and I'm either going to have to mess around with the head placement, offset the headwear, or just draw new hats for elves.  Always more to do.  When I get to doing some animal-people I'll have to remember to check the hats. 

@Japa: I know that Allegro and SDL are seperate entities, but my general idea was that in stead of rendering to the stonesense window, we could get allegro to render to a memory-image (like it does when creating the large screenshots), then use the SDL code to grab that memory-image and put it in the DF window, ideally somewhere between when the DF tiles are supposed to have been drawn and when the options-overlay is drawn (assuming things work in the order I think they work).  The hard parts to that would be finding when that time to draw would be, sizing the image correctly to follow the DF window, and figuring out what image formats correspond to which in the Allegro-SDL translation step (might require some jury-rigging of the relevant object types to wrangle them into the proper shape, but shouldn't be impossible).  The display would inherently lag behind the native implementation by one frame, but throughput would probably be the same as it is now.  The more I think about this the better an idea it seems.  Gotta find time to test it out.

[Meph]

Excuse me, does anyone here have any sprites for Kobolds? I wanted to add stonesense sprites for my playable race of kobolds, would be nice to have a base-creature sprite I can use to make the profession sprites from.

[Apani]

If you search for "Kobold" (or even just Kob, really that's enough) in your Stonesense folder, you can find some sprites. Probably they're just sketches, or maybe they work only for vanilla Kobolds.

[Rose]

There is kobolds, certainly, though it's possible that they are just using the phoebus graphics tiles, which are currently the default for all creatures.

[Rose]

-Snop-

Emo elves?

[Caldfir]

Alright, well I've made a little bit of headway on this since it caught my attention:



The image is upside-down because allegro doesn't bother to reorder the lines when it reads them out of the opengl buffers into memory, and SDL can't understand an upside-down image, so I will need to come up with a workaround there.  Also my calculation for the size of the window is a bit off, and the concurrency controls seem to need a bit of tweaking to avoid blank-spots and flickering, but apart from all that it seems to work.  There is a slight but noticeable lag time between when you press a key, and when the display updates, but I think it's manageable. 

Whole list of minor things that would need to be fixed for this to be a practical way to play the game, but it at least seems like it is possible.

edit:

OK, poked around a bit more and it seems to be working mostly now:



Gonna need to run a battery of tests to get all the little worries worked out, but it's working, and that's the main thing. 

[Hommit]

oh WOW!

what about controls/designating/etc in that mode?

[falconne]

oh WOW!

what about controls/designating/etc in that mode?

I started work on adding an interface using CEGUI a while ago, but had to put it on the backburner for a while to do some other stuff. Still hoping to get back to it in the near future. It will be a massive amount of effort though.

[Raul]

That screenie looks incredibly exciting, it would be amazing if we could play the game like that someday.

[Rose]

What's required for that to work is not, in fact, a gui. All we need is for everything that's shown on the main map screen to be visible in Stonesense. Off the top of my head, all that's missing is designations. Anybody feel like taking a stab at drawing them? If I get sprites, I can add them in pretty easily.

[Caldfir]

What's required for that to work is not, in fact, a gui. All we need is for everything that's shown on the main map screen to be visible in Stonesense. Off the top of my head, all that's missing is designations. Anybody feel like taking a stab at drawing them? If I get sprites, I can add them in pretty easily.

I was imagining something very simple, like the current construction-in-progress indicators:



At some point I guess all that stuff is going to need to be switched over to hi-res, or perhaps configurable to match the resolution of whatever tileset is in use. 

[Rose]

Part of the tile loading re-work that I'm planning will include the ability to set a max tile size, and all tiles will get downsized to that res.