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Author Topic: Minecraft: Nations at War ~~Applications now open~~  (Read 47904 times)

Fiskav

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2012, 03:44:39 pm »

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« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 01:07:39 am by Fiskav »
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Solifuge

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #61 on: April 16, 2012, 05:16:36 pm »

Blah?
Blah Blah.

Chalk it up to not being privy to the talk going on behind those fancy admin doors, with a side of "Cyster often comes across as condescending". No hard feelings; I merely wanted to vent some frustration somewhere that it wouldn't have the potential to hurt her feelings.
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Sowelu

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #62 on: April 16, 2012, 05:29:09 pm »

It's funny, I'd rather not work with other B12ers.  I think it would be a lot more fun to see other B12ers' takes on the other religions, instead of trying to muddle together some form of working together.  Also, if I'm going to gank someone, it would be nice if it's someone I know so there's no hard feelings <3
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Sheez

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2012, 05:45:10 pm »

my question:
can you be independant of a nation/deity trader or bandit or something?

the trader was my first plan, second plan was going with the most B12ers.

We're having some long talks about this, currently. You might be able to go neutral, but at a decided disadvantage. I mean, the other guys have gods backing them.
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How much war could a warforged forge if a warforged could forge war?

Mickey Blue

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #64 on: April 16, 2012, 07:11:42 pm »

I'd be up for this but I haven't really regularly played Minecraft in a long time.  I have gotten going again with it but there is a lot of new stuff.

That said I am an avid DF player, which not only shows that I have a great ability to learn difficult to learn games but also that I am a glutton for punishment :)

I don't really care which group I got put with (if I got in) and the idea of being neutral is interesting as well.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #65 on: April 16, 2012, 08:00:04 pm »

Inevitably, we're going to know more about how things are currently shaping up than you are. We may also have a better idea of why an idea would mean more work.

And that right there is the real kicker. We can't sit down and always tell you -why- a thing won't work, because that often means tipping our hand as to the other mechanics we're working towards. And being the inquisitive folk you are, you'll dig for those answers. I've watched it happen, where Cyster will announce one thing and then suddenly we're detailing something else that's only tangentially related. And rather than tell you all of our plans and thoughts regarding a feature we're working on, we'll leave it vague because it's still being developed. And people still take those ideas and run with them, usually in the wrong directions. That's a problem, because then those folks start to feel like they've got the inside scoop and then run around spouting all of their incorrect information as fact. I'm sure you've seen it happen, because all of us have been doing our best to shut it down.

That's not the kind of situation we want to deal with. But, at the same time, your input is incredibly valuable. And I love that you are excited and curious about what we're doing, and willing to get involved. There are things that we're considering that have been brought up by you guys, and everything you mention goes under some kind of review. Many of your ideas have caught our own imaginations and are filed under the "Shit we'll look into when we have more time" folder, because goddamn it would be cool to have dual-wielding and mounted combat and other stuff that, while exciting, isn't directly part of our core process. We love those things, and they're all the more valuable because you're also interested in them.
I understand what you mean, but at some point you either have to explain enough to us for us to understand the situation and form useful opinions and recommendations over it, or consider what you can tell us and then phrase your questions in such a way that you can get useful data out of the results.

Like, in the gods and biome infodumps, it seems like Cyster's gone back and explained some things she probably should have (and evidently could have) from the beginning. Some of this was easy to overlook- the number of blocks that will be affected by tinting is easy to assume one way or the other, for instance- but other times it seems like she either didn't bother to actually explain anything or only bothered to go back and explain things when it became clear that it was causing problems or not accomplishing the goal to not explain them.

I mean, if you feel what you've got now is better than the alternatives, then I guess there's nothing you can do, but I sometimes get the vibe that you haven't really made up your minds as to whether we're part of the development team or the survey group, and so are providing info and expecting answers that don't really line up.


We do want worship numbers to be balanced. And I am not afraid of throwing people into other nations to make that happen right off the bat. Initially. That's the important thing. There's going to be some give and take, some flow between different gods, that will happen during the game. We're talking about ways to naturally balance some of the issues that'll result from it. Because it sucks when everyone defects to one god and suddenly there's no one to fight, or worse when everyone but your nation does so, and the entire server is out for your blood.
This is a good example of information that maybe should have been mentioned from the start. "We're going to stuff you in boxes, deal with it" and "We're going to feed you through a random sorter from where you can, through methods we haven't decided yet, crawl into a more favorable bin assuming there's space" are considerably different, but I hadn't previously noticed any information pointing to the second option until now.

I am familiar with the issues of population imbalance in a PVP context, but I'm also familiar with the issues of shoving people into distinct, theme-heavy factions they have no interest in and then telling them to go kill the team they actually want to be on in an RP context. I'm wary about blunt mechanics that potentially shaft players in order to achieve a desired effect, even if the effect itself is desirable.


So, this is one of those situations where someone's taken something and run with it. I dunno quite where you're seeing that they will dictate your style, Owl, but I'd be happy to look over it if you can find a place where that's been stated.

Also, why break theme? Just, you know, a question as to why you might do the other thing.
Perhaps "building style" is too strong a phrase, but if I'm worshiping the Fire God, I can only build so many fountains and lush gardens surrounded by graceful, blue and green themed walls before it starts looking kind of strange. I may have also been thinking of building temple-cities or otherwise running with the god motif far more than is strictly necessary.

As for why I'd do something like that in the first place, presumably because I like fountains and gardens and cool colors but happened to end up worshiping and living in the lands of the God of Fire, as opposed to the God of Water or no one god exclusively.



I'm..I'll be honest. I was hesitant to pop in here. I don't want you guys to feel like I'm trolling your space or anything. But these are concerns that I think are worth addressing, and ones that I can address. So I'm here, and this is what I got.
I consider it a compliment that you care enough to come over here to talk to us about it.
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Sheez

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2012, 08:07:15 pm »

Blah?
Blah Blah.

Chalk it up to not being privy to the talk going on behind those fancy admin doors, with a side of "Cyster often comes across as condescending". No hard feelings; I merely wanted to vent some frustration somewhere that it wouldn't have the potential to hurt her feelings.

Sure thing man, and you've got every right to vent about whatever you feel like.

To be honest, we're all pretty thick-skinned folk. And, even more than that, we're the kind of people who take criticism pretty well. If you think somethin' odd's been going down, get in touch with the person and ask or rant or whatevs. If you think I'm a dick, I don't mind you telling me so as long as you can get to the why part of it as well. At least that way, we can have a conversation about what's been going on (whether it be my irritation from work bleeding in, or the famous misunderstandings of the internet, or whatever). I encourage that because we're open to it.

I guess the one thing that I can advise on, and sorta kinda touched on with my previous post, is that it doesn't pay to get attached or invested into your suggestions too much. At least, not right now. I know that it's exciting (I am excited all the time about this), but we're so deep into the planning stages that there are very few concrete things to really rest on yet.

Also, if you don't feel comfortable talking with the other admins, you can let me know your concerns and I'll represent you anonymously. I mean that. I get why approaching someone who has the ability to ban and who enforces rules can be scary and intimidating. We're not the kind of folk to swing those banhammers around willy-nilly, but if that layer of separation makes you feel better I'm happy to provide it.
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How much war could a warforged forge if a warforged could forge war?

Sheez

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2012, 08:35:35 pm »

Words
I understand what you mean, but at some point you either have to explain enough to us for us to understand the situation and form useful opinions and recommendations over it, or consider what you can tell us and then phrase your questions in such a way that you can get useful data out of the results.

Like, in the gods and biome infodumps, it seems like Cyster's gone back and explained some things she probably should have (and evidently could have) from the beginning. Some of this was easy to overlook- the number of blocks that will be affected by tinting is easy to assume one way or the other, for instance- but other times it seems like she either didn't bother to actually explain anything or only bothered to go back and explain things when it became clear that it was causing problems or not accomplishing the goal to not explain them.

I mean, if you feel what you've got now is better than the alternatives, then I guess there's nothing you can do, but I sometimes get the vibe that you haven't really made up your minds as to whether we're part of the development team or the survey group, and so are providing info and expecting answers that don't really line up.

Well, to address your second part, what's goin' on there is that digging that I mentioned. We say "Yay, we're going to have these gods!" and people start in on the rumor mill. Is Night evil? Is Day good? What about folks that don't want to follow gods? Are we making the gods? Are they predetermined? Will they talk to us? Will they throw parties in our townsquare every fortnight? The thing is, much of this hasn't been nailed down. Or, if it has, we're not at the point where we want to talk about it because it will only incite more questions that need answers we may not be able to give.

As one of the last players from Season 1, a player and admin from Season 2, and now an admin and developer on Season 3, I do think we're improving as a whole. I can look back at the things that worked and failed in Season 1 (The gods and their natural enmities were fantastic, as was the structure, but there were issues with reasons for people to fight and with protections), Season 2 (The ideas for the war plugins were great, as were events and the ability to found nations in sort of an open fashion, but war was useless and the map was quite honestly too huge), and wrangle those together into some amalgam that should work for Season 3.

You guys aren't part of the dev group. Which is why we don't tend to push you for answers, or do a whole lot more than ask your opinions. We -do- want to hear from you, though. Even if those ideas get shot down. Even if we don't use them. They fire our imaginations and get us moving on features that, hopefully, will align with your own thoughts on the game. I mean, really, ultimately, I'm just a player like you guys tryin' to make something cool. The only difference is that I get to DM every now and then :3

More words!
This is a good example of information that maybe should have been mentioned from the start. "We're going to stuff you in boxes, deal with it" and "We're going to feed you through a random sorter from where you can, through methods we haven't decided yet, crawl into a more favorable bin assuming there's space" are considerably different, but I hadn't previously noticed any information pointing to the second option until now.

I am familiar with the issues of population imbalance in a PVP context, but I'm also familiar with the issues of shoving people into distinct, theme-heavy factions they have no interest in and then telling them to go kill the team they actually want to be on in an RP context. I'm wary about blunt mechanics that potentially shaft players in order to achieve a desired effect, even if the effect itself is desirable.

Well, and the reason we've been tight-lipped about this is that we don't want to go into it too much because it's a sensitive area and we want to make sure we get it right. Obviously, open fluid movement isn't going to work between nations. So that's something we need to address (and are kinda on a good path towards, I think). The initial placement is going to be an issue as well. Do we ask people to group up and let them hash it out? Do we do a round robin like Season 1 for the start of the server (which, honestly, has a pretty good chance of getting you in with people you want)? How is that going to work?

Ultimately, we're not going to please everyone. I've accepted that. You might as well. There are so many expectations that people have of us, of the server, and of the community as a whole that I don't think we can appease everyone. We will work on making this the best place we can, though.

HAHAHA, EVEN MOAR WORDS!
Perhaps "building style" is too strong a phrase, but if I'm worshiping the Fire God, I can only build so many fountains and lush gardens surrounded by graceful, blue and green themed walls before it starts looking kind of strange. I may have also been thinking of building temple-cities or otherwise running with the god motif far more than is strictly necessary.

As for why I'd do something like that in the first place, presumably because I like fountains and gardens and cool colors but happened to end up worshiping and living in the lands of the God of Fire, as opposed to the God of Water or no one god exclusively.

Weeelll, that's why this biome contest is currently happening. Because looking at Fire and saying "IT'S ALL LAVA AND NETHERRACK" is boring as hell. I don't like it. Fire can encompass so many other things that we really ought to explore them. Fire can be more than a wasteland. It could be a dry savannah, it could be sulfurous hot springs, it could be an obsidian mountain range struck through with rivers of ash. There's no reason to limit your imagination, because we're not going to be. I want the landscape to be continuously varied and interesting, far more so than in Season 2 if you can believe that.

I'm..I'll be honest. I was hesitant to pop in here. I don't want you guys to feel like I'm trolling your space or anything. But these are concerns that I think are worth addressing, and ones that I can address. So I'm here, and this is what I got.
I consider it a compliment that you care enough to come over here to talk to us about it.

Happy to do so :)
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How much war could a warforged forge if a warforged could forge war?

Fiskav

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2012, 02:26:43 am »

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« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 01:06:56 am by Fiskav »
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Fiskav

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #69 on: April 24, 2012, 07:26:45 pm »

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« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 01:01:47 am by Fiskav »
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The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2012, 04:51:01 am »

There's a new Weekly Poll up. This time looking at what playstyles you enjoy.
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jesusmod

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #71 on: May 03, 2012, 06:07:34 pm »

from what I've read about this server, it seems like it would be pretty fun to apply when season three starts up. I haven't played minecraft in quite a while, but I'm sure that this is just the kind of thing I would enjoy.
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The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #72 on: May 21, 2012, 04:07:12 am »

So bumposting. Who all would be interested in getting the band back together in S3? And by that I mean, who would be interested in bowing down to me as their Empress again? :P
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andrea

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #73 on: May 21, 2012, 06:01:13 am »

I am in!
saves me from picking a god at least :P

The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Minecraft: Nations at War
« Reply #74 on: May 21, 2012, 06:10:13 am »

Charm's for joining back up as well, Nowan's not sure about it.
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