Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 720 721 [722] 723 724 ... 759

Author Topic: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread  (Read 1285979 times)

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10815 on: August 29, 2015, 06:31:41 pm »

Helgo your sig is disturbingly appropriate, and unless you seek to turn the EU into the Roman Empire so I am too drunk on Italian wines to resist I shudder at the prospect of British soldiers dying just so the EU can claim North Africa.

I think the current European consensus is something like: "We've tried that one already – let's leave the second round to China."
They just want to rip resources out of Africa and rebuild the silk road (which is a lot better than it sounds), they're less than ideal but tolerable for as long as you don't interfere with their projects. Empires are expensive, no matter if your intention is power or humanitarian, acting in any way on a foreign nation is cheaper when done indirectly. And whilst they don't give a shit about governments whose human rights records have probably been destroyed by their secret police, I think it's become abundantly clear stability trumps democracy, as instability means no democracy and militiants.

Hooray for Britonland, then. (Except for that part about cutting services given to Britons.)
Costs money, and there's not enough to do everything and help everyone. You have to pick, if you try to help everyone you fail everyone.

Meanwhile in Failand, True Finns are all about "helping refugees in their home countries *simper simper smirk*" while their politicians are slashing foreign aid to bits and setting the pieces on fire and stomping on them like fucking lunatics. And naturally they're also slashing social security at the same time, but hey, that's only fair to those poor third-world buggers.
I was under the impression that Finns are grim fellows, and I recall that old saying in regards to the Swedish military versus Russia in that Sweden would be defended to the last Finn. I am also under the impression that even in spite of cuts Finland's welfare system is one of the most comprehensive in the world. What makes the nation Failand? I was also under the impression that Finland's deficit was growing too large, so much so that it violated the EU's budgeting rules which Finland has been subjected to. In a perfect world you can afford everything for everyone but this is not a perfect world. One of the crazy homeless chaps I used to talk to died in the past winter 2 years ago and now I see more replacing him on the benches as this summer comes to an end. Kids Company shut down, houses are not being built nearly fast enough, our airports need expansion, Osborne's balancing defence, pensions, welfare and the NHS with all four cut beyond breaking point, we already had problems with segregated communities and multiculturalism failing so the yearly net 330,000 more migrants coming through the EU aren't going to help - even worse since they're not coming through the commonwealth. Hell, the rape gangs are still operating, you can't make this shit up, and they're just the extreme end that manages to catch headlines. In my county alone there's been 3 shootings and 1 stabbing, and to turn those numbers around 1/3 children aren't ready for school, and many of the schools need expansion because they can't cope with the increase in students. Plans for a new sewerage system has thankfully gone ahead, but we need a bridge over the Thames on eastside, the cuts on health will shoot the legs off nurses most in my area (my health centre is already notoriously shit) and to end on a nice metaphor we're running out of cemetery space. Also 300 people somehow caught malaria last year.
I've said this before in one of the bay12 politics threads, but I always love grilling all my north london liblabgren m8s over the fact that they support unrestricted mass immigration despite their only experience of immigration being north london restaurants whilst everyone else's got to deal with the obvious consequences. I will always love the irony in that if I meet someone in London who supports unrestricted mass immigration then they're white european, if they don't they're either from the Indian subcontinent, Caribbean, Arabia or Eastern Russia. There must be some element of white guilt or colonial guilt that I'm just not getting. This island has obligations to its own peoples and that of the commonwealth first and foremost, it is peculiar to me as to why they are ignored.

If I was going to come up with a long term plan involving colonial shenanigans in Africa I'd probably be looking to counteract desertification where possible, improve the local agricultural and educational system as a priority, and disrupt criminal activities like diamond wars (probably best stopped by causing a crash in the diamond market by removing the artificial scarcity of them), maybe root out militant groups and try to reform them into legitimate political factions. If done well it could result in a decently stable society with good grounds for meeting basic necessities with a potential to become industrial later.
Would take 20+ years I dare say, but it took decades to get Europe fixed up after the World Wars, so it's not as if it's impossible. Of questionable moral and ethical standing, but possible.
Well the West's always been running education stuff (hence why Boko Haram have their little name of Western Education is Verboten) but in regards to criminal activities the USA's been doing a juggernaut's work in this regard. In addition to unloading billions of dollars worth of equipment to government forces they also work with the state and private sector to pull the funding out of militant organizations (in Africa meaning ending illegal gold mining so the government can profit off of it and also regulate it so the workers actually get payed/don't use mercury). Causing a crash in the diamond market wouldn't really do anything since the Kimberly Process is a thing, I guess it would make getting married considerably cheaper. America and China's (legal) exploits and exploitation in Africa have come with the benefit of more roads, factories and jobs.

Graknorke

  • Bay Watcher
  • A bomb's a bad choice for close-range combat.
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10816 on: August 29, 2015, 07:07:06 pm »

Costs money, and there's not enough to do everything and help everyone. You have to pick, if you try to help everyone you fail everyone.
You make it sound like there's the ability to help anyone. The Tories are making cuts like a sociopathic knifeplay fetishist and the national debt is still going up. No matter how you cut it things are pretty fucked and there's no real point pretending that we can just keep sacrificing (the dirty commoners') things until it gets better.
Logged
Cultural status:
Depleted          ☐
Enriched          ☑

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10817 on: August 29, 2015, 07:56:32 pm »

Costs money, and there's not enough to do everything and help everyone. You have to pick, if you try to help everyone you fail everyone.
You make it sound like there's the ability to help anyone. The Tories are making cuts like a sociopathic knifeplay fetishist and the national debt is still going up. No matter how you cut it things are pretty fucked and there's no real point pretending that we can just keep sacrificing (the dirty commoners') things until it gets better.
I agree, I reckon everything's been cut to the breaking point where you can't cut without losing something vital. It's got to be raised taxes, fraud and tax avoidance policing and revenue increasing schemes or caput.

Also what's bay12's opinion on HS2? Costs over 8 billion quid, scars its way through the English countryside but on the flipside could once more make northern cities competitive again. Gov says amendments will reduce the impact on the green, which would mitigate my greatest concern. The cost doesn't concern me as much as I'm quite glad of efforts to make Birmingham as competitive as London and sure it will pay itself off in time. I've been opposed to the railway since pretty much until recently, but I can't shake the feeling that it is too good to be true, or that the money could be better spent. Also, imagine it is built. It makes travel from the north to London incredibly fast. On the paper the railway would mean workers would be able to commute easily from city to city increasing competitiveness for all of them and widening the skilled labour pool but what if it's all just in one direction from Birmingham to London or vice versa? The coin's still in the air on that, a move to make the north more competitive could just backfire and concentrate even more sterling into London. Nothing inherently wrong with that but it's just not as profitable for more English and Britons as having 3 rich cities and 1 incredibly rich city or 3 eclipsed cities and 1 ludicrously rich city.
Though on the other hand, were the whole thing completed the dream would be that a froggy businessman could travel from the tunnel to a london terminal and all the way north to scotland and all the way back for lunch in Belgium. How feasible the dream is is another matter. I don't know, what do you lot think?

xxseuzxx

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10818 on: August 29, 2015, 09:47:58 pm »

I'm somewhat worried about how most of the people here will react to what I'm.about to say about this asylum seekers mess.
I'm a lurker so I never post by the way.
Is it really too hard on the modern European mindset to let this people stay on their homelands?
Do these migrants forget the fact that their countries are shit due to their own cultural and religious practises? As they do the same things over there once the go to Europe .I'm not even sure if those migrants are truly useful as anything apart from menial labour due to a lack of a proper western education and their own cultural beliefs.regarding how they tend to be rather hostile to western ideals of  freedom of speech and religious freedom.at the same time they flood Europe .even If they are educated here they don't quite respect laws,social customs and what is expected of a modern person in a modern democracy.example of what I just said:the barbaric losers that while living in Europe are joining/joined isis or such groups.
Maybe I will be classified as some kind of evil racist prick here but il leave my ramblings here.
But as sjws Say one must tolerate all people. (Not if they are white males).
Typing on a cellphone is a fucking torture.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 09:49:40 pm by xxseuzxx »
Logged

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • [GUE'VESA][BONECARN]
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10819 on: August 29, 2015, 11:27:54 pm »

Appending two synonyms to a word doesn't make an actual point.
Logged
She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • [GUE'VESA][BONECARN]
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10820 on: August 29, 2015, 11:30:32 pm »

Could you explain why they're wrong?
I don't know, I'm relatively uninformed and American.  But I'm willing to believe you have a point, if you'll make it.
Logged
She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

xxseuzxx

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10821 on: August 29, 2015, 11:36:01 pm »

Foretold said conclusion among the people here.but if those people can't help themselves they prove the horribly racist colonial notions regarding them and their abilities. Which is extremely bad as they get discriminated using estereotipical crap and don't get the Help they need to live in a decent country nor assistance to make these people homelands be developed nor assisted to make them a better place In the first place and turn them into a stable safe state.
I don't want to sound like a racist prick but they need help In their own countries first and if that fails ,then they need a legal way to get to live in a better country.
Logged

xxseuzxx

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10822 on: August 29, 2015, 11:41:36 pm »

I never stated what I said as facts,just what I have experienced, seen and come to know.
Sometimes one can't end up with the most politically correct conclusions as one doesn't experiences the same with any given group of people. Nor do I feel Superior to anybody as I know my own faults.and seek to fix em if possible
Logged

xxseuzxx

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10823 on: August 30, 2015, 12:00:06 am »

English isn't my mothet tongue,so sound harsh regarding but I'm having a rather hard time on my own country as it is slowly falling to the same problems the home of these migrants and asylum seekers has fallen into,while not widespread war here it is a mess,basically they aren't arresting criminals nor they are handling the economy in a decent way.
Logged

ArKFallen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bohandean Desserter
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10824 on: August 30, 2015, 12:03:20 am »

Chile. He's got a post in terrified thread about what he's seen.
Logged
Hm, have you considered murder?  It's either that or letting it go.
SigText
I logged back on ;_;

xxseuzxx

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10825 on: August 30, 2015, 12:05:08 am »

Just look the news over there.it is terrifying.
Logged

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • [GUE'VESA][BONECARN]
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10826 on: August 30, 2015, 12:10:43 am »

The "tirade" in the sad thread wasn't at all racist, it was an account of xxseuzxx's interactions with people of a race.
Maybe you doubt their account, but that doesn't make them a racist.
For the record:

1) Migrants and refugees are two completely different things. Though they may travel in the same boats together, the difference between an illegal migrant and a refugee is that while an illegal migrant might be doing it to gain opportunity, the refugee, and I'll quote Mr Francois Crepeau here, wouldn't "[put] their kids on a boat, unless the water is safer than the land.”
So some travel because their destination is better, and others travel because their home is worse.
2) The refugees, by the way, are escaping a devastating civil war that's being funded on both sides by other countries outside of the actual war including the US. This isn't a war for religion, by the way- it's a revolution to topple their government for one that isn't a dictatorship. According to you, people from Syria go against the ideals of a "modern democracy." The whole reason they're fighting is because that's all they goddamn want.
Xxseuzxx said "cultural and religious practices".  Not that it was a religious war.  These nations didn't develop democracy themselves, even/*especially* after being released as sovereign states.  So if anything it's a cultural war - local culture hasn't embraced democracy and basic individual rights.  Local rulers are resisting it, foreign nations (including the US, as you say) are supporting it.

Though in many cases religion can support backward cultural systems, particularly Islam - which is inherently a political system AND religion.  Same with Hinduism supporting its caste system.  It's only in enlightened countries that religion has been separated from culture and politics.
3) These people's homelands are developed, and developed quite well. Again, civil war that's killed over 200000 people will generally cause a lot of destruction to the infrastructure. Do you even know there is a civil war going on?
The homeland is developed (debatable), but also ravaged?  What's your point?
Logged
She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

xxseuzxx

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10827 on: August 30, 2015, 12:12:24 am »

I wish I wasn't as hostile/racists but after this crap you reach a limit.I literally just heard a machine gun from the other side of a rather large river near my house.not even the cops are armed with assault rifles and yet we hear them almost everyday .it leaves you not traumatized,but indifferent.
Logged

xxseuzxx

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10828 on: August 30, 2015, 12:21:18 am »

Leaving this country is rather hard as my parents are rather old and I want to study agronomy as I'm in a rather nifty agricultural school so it is easy for me to study it after I graduate. I'm both impressed and scared about how in two years my country went from decent to unpleasant for everyone .once I have my degree il think about moving.
Logged

Graknorke

  • Bay Watcher
  • A bomb's a bad choice for close-range combat.
    • View Profile
Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #10829 on: August 30, 2015, 02:13:41 am »

Also what's bay12's opinion on HS2?
I'm not entirely convinced that it will do what they say it's meant for.
So it'll help commuters from further north (but not really even all that far north) get to London, so that they can work in London and spend money in London. Then somehow that's supposed to make the wealth actually be at the north end of the line.

Plus there's plenty of rail infrastructure in the North that could really do with improving, but instead the govt is choosing to go with a huge project that has a big benefit for London.
Logged
Cultural status:
Depleted          ☐
Enriched          ☑
Pages: 1 ... 720 721 [722] 723 724 ... 759