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[UXLZ]

It isn't caused by ignorance. The opposite, in fact, it is where ignorance springs from. Those bubbles are sadly, inevitably, utterly, totally inconsolable with one another. The level of education necessary does not exist.

For example, we are all kind and reasonable people here, yes? What is your opinion on pedophiles?

[Frumple]

They're not inconsolable. It's in fact pretty easy to bridge them, overlap them, get them in synch with each other. Gets more difficult the more you try to include, but that doesn't make it impossible. Just difficult, and possibly undesirable with regard to certain subjects.

[UXLZ]

And that's the point, really, disharmony will always spring up, even from the tiniest of areas. Negative disharmony, too, not the kind that leads to improvement.

All it takes is a bowl of spilled rice.

[lemon10]

Yeah, education isn't the answer for things that are highly subjective (eg. should we give rights to gays, should the death penalty be law, ect). And since gay marriage is one of those things, education isn't really the answer for it at all.

Homosexuality is a "sin" equivalent to eating shellfish in Christianity, these people are just deluded bigots.

Homosexuality is treated as quite a bit more of a sin then eating shellfish. Although it is only explicitly pointed out once that its a sin, and the same word is used to describe both, the idea that they are equally bad according to the bible is pretty silly.

[Sheb]

So, no news? Some conservatives are fighting a rear-guard action, and loosing dramatically (they lost their case and every single appeal, as they should). It's just the normal mess surrounding the change, give it five or ten years and no one will consider it an issue anymore.

[Loud Whispers]

I'd say that's inaccurate. The disease in question is ignorance and xenophobia and the cure is knowledge and tolerance.

Knowledge learns nothing to the ignorant and tolerance of others does not do anything inherent towards making them tolerant. All tolerance means is that everyone tolerates each other, it speaks nothing to a changing of beliefs.

The Supreme Court finally decided, and these people demanded a retrial.  AND GOT IT.  Over something that literally hurts nobody.  It's just confirmation of the extreme Christian privilege in America, frankly.  Both perceived and actual.  The most devout Muslim would never have got this.  (Even if they had a case of ACTUAL religious persecution, instead of this BS)

Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Sudan and Somalia carry the death penalty for homosexuality and about 70 other muslim majority countries carry either flogging, vigilantism or imprisonment for homosexuality. When you hear someone saying homosexuality to akin to being a “compulsive murderer”, gambler or paedophile," now that could be from a preacher in Abu Dhabi or Birmingham (though it was from the chairman of the central Birmingham mosque, not a preacher). Schools in Britain shelve any media showing homosexual relationships at the behest of Muslim parents and if you are gay in East London and get jumped, if historic precedence is to be noted the police will try their best to cover it up. Hell, when some blokes started  making animal noises and cries of “Unnatural acts! Unnatural acts!” to Tower Hamlet's labour leader and started calling the Tory leader a poof, police did nothing too. It reaches comic levels of absurdity when "spot the fag" contests are held in east London mosques and everyone's all like ~o.o~ what could this mean?
Oh yeah, and before when I was posting about that muslim drag queen documentary, and there was that hilarious guy saying "I beg u go worship the periodic table u dickheads" - he made the news! Amongst other people, as the guys and girls in the documentary are now under police protection after death threats. And I'd never thought I'd see the day when Sweden attacked a gay rights march - with the counter march led by "anti-racists" labeling the march "provocative" and an "expression of pure racism" because it marched through Stockholm.

Also have some Jewish literature I posted earlier:

This essay is bad and I should feel bad.

I should feel bad because I made exactly the mistake I am trying to warn everyone else about, and it wasn’t until I was almost done that I noticed.
http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/

Very relevant I feel

[Truean]

But that's the problem. You're right. 5 or 10 years, minimum, and even then you'll still have holdouts, though hopefully less in number. Even so, holy crap.

Between a full or a half decade? We live in a society where people are impatient at 60 second microwave dinners, and I'm looking at between 5 to 10 years.... I've already spent half my life on this junk, lived through an era where being gay was a criminal offense, fought for 12 years after that for the beginnings of equality, and now ... more waiting and resistance.

And here we go again:
http://news.yahoo.com/clerk-issue-gay-marriage-licenses-court-ruling-083217111.html#



That photo is her response to people demanding she comply with a supreme court order to do her duty as a voluntarily elected official. She did that in front of the press, knowing and intending to be photographed pretty much sneering at the law.... Just so we're clear, it went something like this. Davis emerged ... telling the couples and the activists gathered there that her office is continuing to deny the licenses "under God's authority."

"We're not leaving until we have a license," Ermold said.

"Then you're going to have a long day," Davis told him

And here's my favorite comment, said by her indirectly through her husband:
"But at the end of the day, we have to stand before God, which has higher authority than the Supreme Court,"

 

And there you have it folks. They just don't give a shit and are going to do anything they can to force whatever they want and selectively define as "God" down everyone else's throats. And, if we stop them, as they deserve to be stopped, then she'll become some kind of martyr for her cause. The best part is that even if you take her beliefs seriously and try to accommodate, the issue is, she won't even let some other clerk come in from another county to issue the licenses. She's not seeking respect or accommodation for her religious beliefs, she's expressly demanding to have more authority than the US Supreme Court in legal matters, and she's actively blocking anybody else from carrying out the lawful order (substituting in somebody who isn't religious to do the gay marriage thing).

[Sheb]

Well, yeah, the sad part is that you'll always have assholes. Still, on some level, it's incredible how quickly attitudes are changing toward gays. I must say it looks great to me, but then I don't have to deal with the remaining bigots.

[Loud Whispers]

Sounds just like she's drunk the kool aid though, not like she's got a Machiavellian plan
And what's so debilitating about a non-entity becoming a martyr to losers? Supreme court is supreme court, gay marriage in USA is concrete this is just the last powerful resistance and it seems without power

[SirQuiamus]

Just out of interest: Are these shitheads 1_st, 2_nd, or n_th generation immigrants? That guy who Tweets and has the word "skittles" in his handle sounds like a jolly Cockney lad who just happens to have spent his whole life in a homophobic echo chamber, just like many other jolly lads from all ethnic and religious backgrounds. In my opinion, the fact that these jokers happen to be "Mooslems" is totally irrelevant: Like that guy says in that blog post you linked, it's all about group identity and bugger-all about the actual "moral" issues that are being contested. It's rather sad and all-too-human that although the Ottomans already legalized homosexuality back in 1858, these beardy hipsters are putting on moral hysterics for the sake of being edgy and anti-Western – but that's how our groupish brains work: The proper way to become a reactionary is to react vehemently against anything and everything "those other people" are saying. If those other people happen to be right, reality is henceforth broken for you.

[Bohandas]

It isn't caused by ignorance. The opposite, in fact, it is where ignorance springs from. Those bubbles are sadly, inevitably, utterly, totally inconsolable with one another. The level of education necessary does not exist.

For example, we are all kind and reasonable people here, yes? What is your opinion on pedophiles?

That depends on if they're raping kids, or having sex with minors who are genuinely into it, or just attracted to kids. The first is precisely as bad as any other form of rape (no more, no less; and you're ageist if you say otherwise), the second is creepy but ultimately does not do any real harm and therefore it's condemnation is unjustified, the third is completely acceptable - a person's private thoughts are their own business.

[Loud Whispers]

Just out of interest: Are these shitheads 1_st, 2_nd, or n_th generation immigrants?

A mix of all, mostly 1st or 2nd as Muslims only started immigrating by the hundreds of thousands quite recently (within the last 3 decades or so)

That guy who Tweets and has the word "skittles" in his handle sounds like a jolly Cockney lad who just happens to have spent his whole life in a homophobic echo chamber, just like many other jolly lads from all ethnic and religious backgrounds.

Just a minor point on the dialect, that's not cockney, that's estuary london speak
More to the point:
"happens"
He didn't "happens" into anything, people have moral agency. The very fact that progressivism exists is testament to the first people who lived their lives surrounded by stuff they didn't like and decided not to follow said stuff, making new stuff.

In my opinion, the fact that these jokers happen to be "Mooslems" is totally irrelevant: Like that guy says in that blog post you linked, it's all about group identity and bugger-all about the actual "moral" issues that are being contested.

The article I linked was about how ethnic identity is less divisive than political identity, people are distrustful more of people with different political beliefs than of different people

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And Twitter lads make more convincing arguments

It's rather sad and all-too-human that although the Ottomans already legalized homosexuality back in 1858, these beardy hipsters are putting on moral hysterics for the sake of being edgy and anti-Western – but that's how our groupish brains work: The proper way to become a reactionary is to react vehemently against anything and everything "those other people" are saying. If those other people happen to be right, reality is henceforth broken for you.

I don't quite think this is a reactionary movement against the defunct Ottoman Empire or if they give a shit about being edgy or anti-western, they have a moral code and they follow through with it and wish to see their ideology grow wherever they go
And reality is not broken, because only you are right in your (that's a you plural right there, not singular) eyes, no one "happens" to be right unless there's an objective fact to dispute but even then religion is a powerful thing; you gotta have faith e.t.c.
Also you know, in their minds they "happen" to be right and anyone LGBT is in the wrong.
This is like that old hilarious argument my French m8y said that they set that kid on fire in the bus or beheaded the soldier in London it was because they didn't actually believe in Islam and my Russian m8y was just like "are you on crack, it is because they believe." Whilst not as diplomatic, he certainly got the point across. When Milipede wanted to ban criticizing Islam a few Islamic and free speech spokespeople were like "Milipede pls no this is retarded rethink your life" and loads others were like "this is absolutely bueno thank you Milipede" (though Milipede got utterly destroyed so it never happened) it's not like Islamic fundamentalists opposed progressives who wanted to smear cartoonists for "bringing it on themselves" when they got beheaded for drawing Muhammed, no they joined in of course! It is not a difficult concept to grasp that people have beliefs which shape the way they see the world and act upon it; just saying, the Hindus who immigrated to London arrived when it was still English, when racism was a normal practice, when London stopped being English, when tolerance was a normal practice, not only did they integrate every time, but their children integrated and their children and so on to the point where men and women of the Indian subcontinent occupy several tens of thousands of elite careers in the British Isles, most notably the sheer amount of Indian doctors. You don't happen your way somewhere, you make choices. Just so happens fundie museli got a moral guide that aids their choices :D [Perhaps with less nutritional value than museli]

[Bohandas]

Personally I don't understand why they even need a person to issue marriage licenses. That seems like something that could be handled by a simple computer program.

[Loud Whispers]

Taxation purposes

[Frumple]

*waggles hand* If marriage as a legal concept was replaced wholesale by civil unions (holding all the same rights, privileges, and responsibilities, of course -- marriage with the name filed off), there wouldn't be much debate. Even in areas where civil unions and marriages currently are legally equal, there's still (fairly appropriate) attempts to allow for same sex marriage. Separate but equal is not equal and all that.

But yeah, pretty much the entire crux of the issue is (religious) people holding the borderline blasphemous belief that the secular and religious institutions of marriage are the same thing. Making the implicit statement that the court is equal to god isn't something I'd exactly be comfortable with, were I religious, m'self :V