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Wait for the next release. I want usable mugs damn it!

55 (71.4%)

We can use the current one. I like the big trees and slightly smarter dorfs.

17 (22.1%)

I'll take .34.11 thanks. I want to know I'll get to kill things for sure.

5 (6.5%)

Total Members Voted: 77

[Lolfail0009]

As for the gnolls... I don't think I can object to the inclusion of any sort of sapient based on hyenas, who are (in true, objective, indisputable fact) the badassest and most adorable non-amphibian animals to ever grace the African savanna (lions can go straight to hell)..[/b]

The specification of Africa noted

[STATEMENT OF AUSTRALIAN BADASSERY]

[Splint]

Well, as far as being "evil" it's entirely possible that the gnolls aren't evil, just.... Well, kinda stupid outside what they know. They look like they'd be clumsy with delicate work at best besides very crude metalworking and possibly bow and arrow making and a tribal hunting/raiding lifestyle doesn't exactly promote being of a kind disposition, at least to those not part of their clan/pack/tribe/whatever.

As far as the power source of the tin tyrants and by extension the colossi, could always go the route of a gem, either powered by the more sinister option of souls or by actual magic siphoned off from the land/donated by a local mage. This gem would be the weak point, in essence being a fragile battery, that is if one can get inside its guard to land a solid strike in its general location.

[Talvieno]

I'm... not sure how I feel about the tin things. On the one hand, I really, really, really love the concept, and you obviously put a lot of thought into it. On the other... magical, ridiculously-durable droids that cannot be hacked or reverse-engineered feels a bit sparklypoo to me (yes, I'm aware that we already have bronze colossi in actual DF canon). Also, you may have put a lot of work into their backstory and behaviour, but the tinmen themselves are a bit too cipherous in their inner workings for my liking -- they kind of feel like fairy-tale creatures powered by nondescript 'magic' (or to paraphrase Futurama, 'It Just Works') than anything else. Yes I am aware that this would be a drop in the bucket compared to all the random sci-fi-fantasy bullcrap we already have floating around, but this seems to be particularly-egregious to me for whatever reason, probably because people have actually tried to determine how it works and largely failed. You described their inner workings in minute detail, but it still boiled down in the end to 'we have no bloody clue how it works', which tends to read to me as an admission of ignorance on the authour's part. You, at least, had better know exactly how these things work, even if you're not telling us in their backstory. End opinion: Approve, but tread lightly, 'cuz you're in sketchy territory. Also, you might wanna make them into an SCP if you can, because that's the vibe I was getting from them.

As for the gnolls... I don't think I can object to the inclusion of any sort of sapient based on hyenas, who are (in true, objective, indisputable fact) the badassest and most adorable non-amphibian animals to ever grace the African savanna (lions can go straight to hell). I kind of came away from your writeup wanting more, though, particularly with regards to their biology, which probably could have been more in-depth (you didn't touch on their psychology much at all, for example). Also, I reeeeeeeally don't like how over-the-top evil and brutal they are. End opinion: shows promise, needs work.

I was thinking the same thing about the tin dudes... But the gnolls, not so much. I'm just more against us adding a completely new, unforeshadowed entity. It feels like a giant space flea from nowhere.

[Propman]

I was thinking the same thing about the tin dudes... But the gnolls, not so much. I'm just more against us adding a completely new, unforeshadowed entity. It feels like a giant space flea from nowhere.

Actually, it's already stated in the background material that gnolls exist, (and even without adding the raws, there will still be hyena men) it's just never stated where they exist in the context of Everoc.

[Talvieno]

True enough, but while we've taken some elements of 1d4chan's Everoc into Spearbreakers, there are many elements of that particular "Everoc" that have never been discussed or even mentioned either in Boatmurdered, Headshoots, Syrupleaf, or Spearbreakers.

And yes, there will still be hyena men, but they won't have their own entity, and thus won't siege. They'll just be out there somewhere. If you want to replace those hyena men, I'm totally for it - why not, right? At least then it's not like they're a huge entity that somehow, nobody in canon has ever heard of before. But, hey. You have Mr Frog's approval, and that's hard to get.

[Propman]

The fact that the Hyena men were not different from the other animal men (as opposed to the minotaur, or murloks fish men), was actually what irked me to the point of replacing them with gnolls (which the raws do in fact replace). The gnolls really aren't technically a 100% chaotic evil race, it's just that they're really, really bad at first impressions, especially when forced to change their lifestyle in the face of eldrich, inhumorous (likely the most off-putting aspect of the Holistic spawn to them) alien monsters chasing them. There will always be relatively sane gnoll mercenaries, and a possibility for some "friendly" gnoll hamlets to appear in world gen (just don't talk to them directly; no really, for some reason, it sparks the entire settlement into attacking you).

[Talvieno]

Again, giant space flea from nowhere. Hyena men haven't had an entity before, and haven't even been mentioned. Some of the horrors we've invented (manamaids, seqiv) do have grounding in canon, alluded to briefly, while others are spoken of extensively (scythods). Gnolls haven't been mentioned at all until now. Like I said, we take our lore seriously. The reason I'm somewhat okay with the tin men (minus the sparkly stuff Mr Frog mentioned) is because they're megabeasts, so it'll be rare for you to see them. Gnolls would be attacking quite frequently, having babysnatcher, ambusher, and early siege tags - they'd essentially become a staple of the story simply by showing up so much, which would make Spearbreakers II far removed from Spearbreakers canon, and essentially in a different universe entirely - thus not really a true sequel.

That's actually the reason I decided to dump dwelves, despite how amused I was with the idea. There's no background in the story and they were to be a trading civ.

[Splint]

Although bear in mind that we're moving inland with the sequel, and things there are a hell of a lot worse than where Spearbreakers is, as hard as that is to believe. This is a place where all manner of belligerent creatures - in this case including gnolls - would probably do ok, if not exceptionally.

[Talvieno]

Although bear in mind that we're moving inland with the sequel, and things there are a hell of a lot worse than where Spearbreakers is, as hard as that is to believe. This is a place where all manner of belligerent creatures - in this case including gnolls - would probably do ok, if not exceptionally.

Yes, but, also bear in mind we're fighting living war machines, monstrosities so ugly your eyes melt, and ninja creatures who can make you lose sight of them while they're standing directly in front of you - and all of them have some background in the story. I've played several lengthy fortresses in the mod (10+ years each) and seriously, manamaids are deadly. We already have a decent number of belligerent creatures, and we didn't have to invent them at the last moment.

But, not gonna argue with you, Splint. lol     If you give it the thumbs-up, that's enough for me.

[The Master]

Master, PLEASE set your PPP to 50.
Much less headache.

Ah, much better.

[CaptainMcClellan]

Perhaps we can introduce them in increments. After all, all civs would seem like giant space fleas from an outside civ at their onset. As a compromise, make them somewhat more advanced than standard but not as advanced as the mod intends. Then by Spearbreakers III they can be a full fledged civ. ( Also, in SBII, they should not have sites as advanced as hamlets. They should be, if possible, more rudimentary. Perhaps living in cave hovels with fiercely guarded unwalled farms. )

[Talvieno]

That idea actually has some merit to it...

Unrelated: Happy 10000th Post, everybody.

[Splint]

I say they get tentative approval as well. They can and do have a relevant place, just not in the particular region where Spearbreakers itself is, just as there are other nasties to be included that weren't in the first, such as Grave Titans, Megaspawn, and spawn castes in general that bring the "old" spawn back while keeping ours. They simply weren't in the general region because they hadn't spread that far or couldn't.

Unrelated: Happy 10000th Post, everybody.

And woo!

[CaptainMcClellan]

That idea actually has some merit to it...

Unrelated: Happy 10000th Post, everybody.

Do you win a free laptop? Do I win a free laptop?

[Talvieno]

That idea actually has some merit to it...

Unrelated: Happy 10000th Post, everybody.

Do you win a free laptop? Do I win a free laptop?

Yes.
*pushes you towards Necrothreat*
Careful, the ammo may or may not work.

I say they get tentative approval as well. They can and do have a relevant place, just not in the particular region where Spearbreakers itself is, just as there are other nasties to be included that weren't in the first, such as Grave Titans, Megaspawn, and spawn castes in general that bring the "old" spawn back while keeping ours. They simply weren't in the general region because they hadn't spread that far or couldn't.

Unrelated: Happy 10000th Post, everybody.

And woo!

Those are a little different - they're mostly megabeasts, except for the Spawn castes. (Those spawn castes were a nightmare. lol) That's why I was mostly okay with the tin titan. Adding a new civilization really mixes things up. I wouldn't be at all against an ubiquitous "gnoll" creature that attacks in berserk-rage wolverine style, though. You'd get your gnoll attacks and it wouldn't be like they were a totally new, unheard-of, wtf-is-that where'd-they-come-from civilization, either.