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[Jim Groovester]

last time i checked any lynch was better than NL

Okay. A terrible reason to break the tie, but sure. Let's roll with it.

Why MagmaMcFry then? You could've chose one of six people. If the goal was only to get a lynch, any of them would've done the job. So why pick MagmaMcFry?

but that will likely not save me

and

I cannot think of anything that will not dig me deeper.

So I will say it anyways,
If I am obviously scum why would i be scum?

is it not a scums job is to not seem scum?

and me not being killed in the night is because I was unwittingly helping them with their jobs
by being so scummy

Scumminess and towniness aren't on some circular band, wherein if you go far enough in one direction you'll eventually end up on the other side.

So being scummy doesn't make you town. It just doesn't make any sense. As Dariush pointed out, it's WIFOM to suggest that it does.

This is actually the reversal of the Too Townie fallacy, which has no formal name but which I will dub the So Scummy fallacy. It's just as much a fallacy as its counterpart.

Well I tried and failed.

You're going to have to put more effort in than that.

Not even to save yourself from being lynched, just even to learn how to play the game. Feeble efforts do nothing for you while you're in the game and what's worse is that they teach you nothing.

Try harder.

[Darvi]

This is actually the reversal of the Too Townie fallacy, which has no formal name but which I will dub the So Scummy fallacy. It's just as much a fallacy as its counterpart.

Refuge in Audacity?

[obolisk0430]

This is actually the reversal of the Too Townie fallacy, which has no formal name but which I will dub the So Scummy fallacy. It's just as much a fallacy as its counterpart.

Refuge in Audacity?

I think this is closer to what I was thinking when I accused him of WIFOM.

[penngo009]

Penngo:

Flandre[/b], Mii. From  re-reading over some of the games, I found you two would be inclined to kill Scelly. I think one of you is scum, though.

What is the asking price for this information you're sitting on? I'll offer a rebuttal in exchange for a believable argument. The standard fare--you know how it goes.

Because, Scelly was focusing you and Mii. Which, gives you a perfect reason to kill him. You guys would want him not to accidentally stumble on a piece of information that would make a very good case against you and/or Mii. Also, nice quote mess-up. Why didn't you just re post it?

Also another reason the scum may have wanted him dead is because he was active(not geared to Mii/Flandre)

[Jim Groovester]

This is actually the reversal of the Too Townie fallacy, which has no formal name but which I will dub the So Scummy fallacy. It's just as much a fallacy as its counterpart.

Refuge in Audacity?

No, that's doing bold shit people think scum wouldn't do. It's kind of stupid because good scum are always doing stuff like that.

Because, Scelly was focusing you and Mii. Which, gives you a perfect reason to kill him. You guys would want him not to accidentally stumble on a piece of information that would make a very good case against you and/or Mii. Also, nice quote mess-up. Why didn't you just re post it?

Also another reason the scum may have wanted him dead is because he was active(not geared to Mii/Flandre)

Oh, goodie. I'm glad you brought this up, since this gives me the opportunity to talk about one of my very favorite things to talk about in Beginner's Mafias.

That Scelly9 was killed while he was attacking Mii and Flandre doesn't mean a whole lot. Mii and Flandre could be scum and they could've killed him, or they're town and scum killed him to make people think it was Flandre and Mii, or they could have killed Scelly9 for entirely different reasons altogether. In other words, you can't make any strong conclusions one way or the other.

Point being, trying to think through the night kill and gain leads and targets never really works.

uber pye, you need to respond.

[penngo009]

This is actually the reversal of the Too Townie fallacy, which has no formal name but which I will dub the So Scummy fallacy. It's just as much a fallacy as its counterpart.

Refuge in Audacity?

No, that's doing bold shit people think scum wouldn't do. It's kind of stupid because good scum are always doing stuff like that.

Because, Scelly was focusing you and Mii. Which, gives you a perfect reason to kill him. You guys would want him not to accidentally stumble on a piece of information that would make a very good case against you and/or Mii. Also, nice quote mess-up. Why didn't you just re post it?

Also another reason the scum may have wanted him dead is because he was active(not geared to Mii/Flandre)

Oh, goodie. I'm glad you brought this up, since this gives me the opportunity to talk about one of my very favorite things to talk about in Beginner's Mafias.

That Scelly9 was killed while he was attacking Mii and Flandre doesn't mean a whole lot. Mii and Flandre could be scum and they could've killed him, or they're town and scum killed him to make people think it was Flandre and Mii, or they could have killed Scelly9 for entirely different reasons altogether. In other words, you can't make any strong conclusions one way or the other.

Point being, trying to think through the night kill and gain leads and targets never really works.

Yes, but it's something I would expect out of people with little experience, unless Toaster basically told them to do it. I guess it isn't a good idea to underestimate, but......You get my point.

[Jim Groovester]

No, it's just as invalid with beginners as it is with any other group of players. It's even worse with beginners, because they think mafia is all about outthinking everybody. They're all about using kills to lead hapless players in the wrong direction.

This is why you have to ignore any leads you think you're getting from the nightkill. You are wrong.

Here, let me balance out your terrible argument about the nightkill with one of my own, just as a demonstration of the sorts of terrible leads you can get.

You killed Scelly9, because you knew it would lead back to Mii and Flandre, thus giving you something to latch onto during the Day 2 scumhunt, in the hopes of getting a mislynch.

Flawless , right? No. It's wrong. Don't do it. Don't think about doing it. It's just wrong.

[Dariush]

Because, Scelly was focusing you and Mii. Which, gives you a perfect reason to kill him. You guys would want him not to accidentally stumble on a piece of information that would make a very good case against you and/or Mii.

WIFOMy bullshit. Well, Jim already explained it.

Also, nice quote mess-up. Why didn't you just re post it?

And that matters why?

Yes, but it's something I would expect out of people with little experience

Implying you are more experienced?

[Jim Groovester]

Hunt.

[Urist_McArathos]

Vote Count
-----------------------------------------------
Mii-
penngo009-
Flandre-
obolisk0430-
uber pye- Dariush, Flandre, Jim Groovester, obolisk0430
Jim Groovester-
Dariush-

Not Voting: penngo009, uber pye, Mii

The Day will end Tuesday at 9 PM CST/Wednesday 3 AM GMT

[Jim Groovester]

Hunt.

[penngo009]

Why don't you? Jim, you're a part of this game, too.

[Jim Groovester]

Sure, accuse the guy urging you out of inactivity of being inactive.

[Urist_McArathos]

Why don't you? Jim, you're a part of this game, too.

While the ICs are a part of this game, it's worth remembering that they already know HOW to play and play well.  If the new players do nothing, they cannot teach; if they cannot teach, this entire game becomes a waste of time.  You are here to learn how to play mafia, and you will learn nothing from posting once per day phase and promptly waiting quietly for time to run out.  Even if you have no idea WHAT to do, you should try and do SOMETHING.

The ICs can then step in and inform you of what you should and should not do, and what you could be doing better/differently.  There's no excuse to sit quietly.

[Tiruin]

Your primary goal is to find scum. Everything you do should help you towards that goal. And I do mean everything.

If you're scum, you will obviously have a different goal: Avoid detection until the end of the game. The best way to do this is to look like you are trying to find scum.

Since many of you are going to have no idea what to do and will mangle scumhunting in just about every possible way, it does you no good to hold back. So be bold, and just do the best you can. Ask lots of questions, try to get a good feel for how the game is played. I

Additionally, before anybody else does anything, I will stress the importance of activity. You should be as active as possible. A good guideline is to get one good post in a day, but if you can post productively more often than that it's generally a good idea to do so. As a player, town or scum, being active and visible is very much an asset, as you're out there making yourself readable, and this is considered a town quality. While there are very good personal benefits to being active, the reverse is detrimental to the whole game. Low activity makes games hard to play or outright kills them. This is fun for absolutely no one, so make a good effort and be active.

Weekdays have come and so runs the timer to night. Go Players! Don't give up, whether you win or lose, it's the experience that matters!

Don't let the deaths of two townies shake down your case. Charge forth and hunt! Be aggressive and do your best, or every loss will be a regret! [/wishingforactivity]