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[klingon13524]

ISn't curses also the library used to make the display?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curses_(programming_library)

That's a coincidence. It's called Curses because of the Gyp cursing people who complain here.

How the !@#$%^&* is this thread still open two days after this?

I hope for your sake that that isn't a complaint.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

How the fuck is this thread still open two days after this?

Because I won't lock a thread just because one person makes an off-color joke. You might be thinking that the OP is answered, so the thread isn't relevant anymore, but the history of threads like this is that they generally turn into discussion of other Bay12 Curses games.

OH NO YOU DONT NOT THIS AGAIN

I understand the context for this response, but it's over the top. Yelling at people for calling out ethnic stereotypes isn't very classy, even if they were recently doing the same thing recently. It might not seem serious, but the Romani and other groups thrown together under the label "Gypsies" are still subject to a level of racism rarely seen in the modern world.

I hope for your sake that that isn't a complaint.

I get why you gave this response, since it's actually quite a witty reference to your previous post, but it's otherwise a fairly inflammatory thing to say, because it comes across as dismissive of something the other person obvious takes seriously. So let's not get carried away with the humor and drive things into a flame war.


I almost locked this post because all three of the last three replies, by three different people, were inflammatory in their own way. If you guys are civil, I'll keep the post unlocked. But further responses need to be toned down significantly.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I understand the context for this response, but it's over the top.

So that means you are aware of the massive argument in GD about this subject a few days ago?

EDIT: Woah, total grammar failure.

[klingon13524]

Isn't the whole premise of LCS based around stereotypes? It's used in satire rather than one off jokes, but it's still under the same umbrella of offending people in a non-serious tone..

[Jonathan S. Fox]

I understand the context for this response, but it's over the top.

So that means you are aware of the massive argument in GD about this subject a few days ago?

EDIT: Woah, total grammar failure.

Not before this thread, but yes, I read up on it before replying so that I would understand what you were reacting to. And I agree with you, I don't want a massive argument here.

Isn't the whole premise of LCS based around stereotypes? It's used in satire rather than one off jokes, but it's still under the same umbrella of offending people in a non-serious tone..

Sort of, similar to how Grand Theft Auto is indiscriminate in stereotyping absolutely everyone they can add to the game, but not as extreme. Like I said, I wouldn't lock the thread just because you made a joke based on a stereotype, and I actually found your response to being called out on it to be quite well done. I would stop while you're ahead though, since G-Flex is right that there are real people who are unfairly stereotyped by images of Gypsy thieves and curses.

[G-Flex]

How the fuck is this thread still open two days after this?

Because I won't lock a thread just because one person makes an off-color joke. You might be thinking that the OP is answered, so the thread isn't relevant anymore, but the history of threads like this is that they generally turn into discussion of other Bay12 Curses games.

I was thinking less about you and more about Toady, who normally would have handed out a warning if not locked the thread or deleted post, in circumstances like that. I have no idea what your moderation style is because I don't think I've ever seen you have to use it.


Also: It's kind of bizarre that this happened soon after that huge, ridiculous General Discussion argument about a similar topic, but that's just coincidence (it's not like I search the forums for Words I Don't Like), I don't really think that case was as blatant and I'll leave it at that.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

I was thinking less about you and more about Toady, who normally would have handed out a warning if not locked the thread or deleted post, in circumstances like that. I have no idea what your moderation style is because I don't think I've ever seen you have to use it.

I moderate the Curses forums so that Toady doesn't have to. He'll generally only intervene here if you hit the "report to moderator" button, since that goes to him and not me, or if there's spam that needs to be deleted (since I no longer have the ability to delete posts, by my own request). I've only seen him step in to lock a thread here once, and that was a really extreme case that wouldn't have gotten past me if I'd been checking the forum more frequently.

You can see my moderator style by this thread. If I can prevent a thread from needing to be locked by intervening early, I will. I sometimes PM the people involved instead of posting publicly, especially if one person is being much more out of line than others. I try hard to make sure egos aren't trampled because I want to keep everyone involved in the forum. Using the powers that come with the title is almost never necessary if you can just talk to the people involved privately, and they know you have hard power to back you up.

In terms of what will get me put my moderator hat on, my approach is that if people aren't flaming each other or spamming the forums, I'm probably not going to interfere. This is a quiet enough subforum that really strict rules aren't needed. There's probably something in the forum rules about not saying certain offensive things, but obviously the joke here wasn't intended to be malicious, so I'm not going to go into a righteous fury about it -- nobody likes a tyrannical moderator. I don't have a problem with you calling something out if it seems objectionable, just do your best to ensure any ensuing discussion remains civil.

[G-Flex]

I moderate the Curses forums so that Toady doesn't have to. He'll generally only intervene here if you hit the "report to moderator" button

To be fair, that's the case in the other forums as well, usually. Also, I did, and waited a day or two afterwards before replying, which is... a lot more patient than I usually am, I guess.

You can see my moderator style by this thread. If I can prevent a thread from needing to be locked by intervening early, I will. I sometimes PM the people involved instead of posting publicly, especially if one person is being much more out of line than others. I try hard to make sure egos aren't trampled because I want to keep everyone involved in the forum. Using the powers that come with the title is almost never necessary if you can just talk to the people involved privately, and they know you have hard power to back you up.

I don't know if it's coming off this way, but I'm not really criticizing you for any of this; that's a perfectly reasonable way to do things.

There's probably something in the forum rules about not saying certain offensive things, but obviously the joke here wasn't intended to be malicious, so I'm not going to go into a righteous fury about it -- nobody likes a tyrannical moderator.

I'm honestly curious if you would ascribe the same non-malicious intent to someone talking about "kikes killing christian babies" or "darkies kidnapping white women" as you do to someone talking about "gyps cursing people".

[klingon13524]

There's probably something in the forum rules about not saying certain offensive things, but obviously the joke here wasn't intended to be malicious, so I'm not going to go into a righteous fury about it -- nobody likes a tyrannical moderator.

I'm honestly curious if you would ascribe the same non-malicious intent to someone talking about "kikes killing christian babies" or "darkies kidnapping white women" as you do to someone talking about "gyps cursing people".

I didn't say anything about gyps cursing people, that's rude! I said something about a Gyp, singular, cursing people who complain here. I wasn't conforming anyone to a stereotype, I was stating why the forum is called Curses.

[G-Flex]

I didn't say anything about gyps cursing people, that's rude! I said something about a Gyp, singular, cursing people who complain here. I wasn't conforming anyone to a stereotype, I was stating why the forum is called Curses.

Okay, so it was more like "a Kike performing blood libel" as opposed to "kikes performing blood libel". I, uh. Well. I'm not really sure how to take this as anything but trolling, to be honest.

[klingon13524]

I didn't say anything about gyps cursing people, that's rude! I said something about a Gyp, singular, cursing people who complain here. I wasn't conforming anyone to a stereotype, I was stating why the forum is called Curses.

Okay, so it was more like "a Kike performing blood libel" as opposed to "kikes performing blood libel". I, uh. Well. I'm not really sure how to take this as anything but trolling, to be honest.

Sometimes black people eat watermelons, and there's nothing racist about stating that. I have an Asian friend that's good at math, and it isn't rude to say that. Sometimes people do things that stereotypes say they'll do neither because nor in spite of some silly image we have in our heads.

But that's not really the point. The ethnic group and actions preformed by this particular lady are completely independent. It's by coincidence alone that the person who curses complainers here is a Gypsy, and it really shows that you are a racist banderwaggler by assuming that I was showcasing some notion of what groups of people are expected to do.

Shame on you hypocritical conservative wrongdoers!

[Jonathan S. Fox]

I'm honestly curious if you would ascribe the same non-malicious intent to someone talking about "kikes killing christian babies" or "darkies kidnapping white women" as you do to someone talking about "gyps cursing people".

Probably not.

Sometimes black people eat watermelons, and there's nothing racist about stating that. I have an Asian friend that's good at math, and it isn't rude to say that. Sometimes people do things that stereotypes say they'll do neither because nor in spite of some silly image we have in our heads.

But that's not really the point. The ethnic group and actions preformed by this particular lady are completely independent. It's by coincidence alone that the person who curses complainers here is a Gypsy, and it really shows that you are a racist banderwaggler by assuming that I was showcasing some notion of what groups of people are expected to do.

Shame on you hypocritical conservative wrongdoers!

You weren't talking about a person, you were making a joke based on a stereotype. Defensiveness with spurious arguments is many times more unbecoming than an apology or just saying nothing.

I'm intervening to prevent a possible flame war, and you're posting inflammatory content with a trollface icon. If you put me in a position where I feel I need to lock this thread anyway, I'm going to be very annoyed.

[G-Flex]

I'm honestly curious if you would ascribe the same non-malicious intent to someone talking about "kikes killing christian babies" or "darkies kidnapping white women" as you do to someone talking about "gyps cursing people".

Probably not.

I think I've made my point, then; they're similar stereotypes, and judging from my experiences with people in various parts of Europe, casual hatred/stereotyping of romani people is definitely as serious as, say, anti-semitism.

I apologize for my role in making this a bit more heated than it had to be. I tend to go off the handle a bit sometimes, which is why this time I tried reporting first. It appears I have a terminal lack of ability to not respond to things, and I'm not going to try to excuse that.

[Yannanth]

.

[G-Flex]

Actually no, LOL, everyone stereotypes the gypsies (who are not always Romani, mind you, though they're the biggest group). Really, there are very few people who'll have a go at you for it.

I'm not really sure what you're saying "no" to here. The fact that few people are actually willing to call other people out on it speaks of a serious problem, in my opinion. If anything, you're just making my point for me.