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[Cthulhu]

I don't think they'd be able to form a civilization, even if they are sapient.  No graspers means they can't use tools or modify their environment, and living in the open ocean raises some doubts about what kind of structures they'd build anyway.

I suppose it's possible, but I think octopuses would be a safer bet for underwater society.

[Sirus]

I say we give a dolphin some sort of underwater stove and see if it cooks food.

No thumbs :/

Big buttons it could push with it's nose?

Underwater :/

Super-heating non-conductive heat element? Basically boil whatever was put over it?

Alright, I got nothing.

[Neonivek]

Right. But. They certainly do not have a ton of rights. Like my dog is not even allowed to go outside without being on a leash and he is required for all times in his life to wear a collar. How fucked up would that be when applied to a human (Or "person")?

He also clearly has Stockholm syndrome.

Actually a human with the intelligence of a dog would very likely not be allowed outside on their own and would be considered the absolute responsibility of the person who takes care of them.

[kaijyuu]

Dogs are pretty intelligent in some aspects. My brother's dog is a manipulative bitch.

[Dutchling]

That is true, I understand that is how they act normally, but still. It actually really creepy sometimes, the submission and lack of... I'm not sure of the word, ambition? Freewill? Something like a cross between the two... At any rate it is a little creepy even in dogs, in something considered people it would be even more creepy.

Well, I'm never going to the Netherlands now.

Seriously.

Is this a thing? Anywhere? Is your brother some crazed scientist?

Hehe, totally forgot I posted this here.

My brother tests some stuff regarding 3d vision and he uses Macaques as test subjects. Initially they would 'only' get some sort of plastic rod on their head which would be used to fasten it to the scanner (MRI?) but later it turned out that his monkeys would get the normal procedure, and thus the skull/skin on top of their head was removed and replaced with a plastic cover.

He says that tests like this are getting rarer lately, mainly because of the high cute-factor monkeys have. He can regularly not come to his work because a few animal right weirdos.

He hasn't actually tested anything yet though, as the macaques need years of training before they can lie still for hours in an MRI. The macaques have it pretty good compared to the rabbits though. They are basically big living cancer bunnies.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Dogs are pretty intelligent in some aspects. My brother's dog is a manipulative bitch.

I swear that my first dog could manipulate the Force. She could stare into someone's eyes until it blanked their mind. Using this to get me and my family members to involuntarily drop food was something that happened more than once.

And every dog I've ever had eventually discovered how to manipulate door knobs.

[Karnewarrior]

Dogs are pretty intelligent in some aspects. My brother's dog is a manipulative bitch.

I swear that my first dog could manipulate the Force. She could stare into someone's eyes until it blanked their mind. Using this to get me and my family members to involuntarily drop food was something that happened more than once.

And every dog I've ever had eventually discovered how to manipulate door knobs.

My dog can barely figure out how to use the couch.

Lucky.

[Criptfeind]

Right. But. They certainly do not have a ton of rights. Like my dog is not even allowed to go outside without being on a leash and he is required for all times in his life to wear a collar. How fucked up would that be when applied to a human (Or "person")?

He also clearly has Stockholm syndrome.

Actually a human with the intelligence of a dog would very likely not be allowed outside on their own and would be considered the absolute responsibility of the person who takes care of them.

That's a good point. What is humanity anyway? If we can take the rights of these people away.

But if we still consider them people, then how can intelligence be used as a metric for "personhood"?

[Dutchling]

I have a cat.
I'm not quite sure if it sees humans as intelligent species.

[Cthulhu]

Right. But. They certainly do not have a ton of rights. Like my dog is not even allowed to go outside without being on a leash and he is required for all times in his life to wear a collar. How fucked up would that be when applied to a human (Or "person")?

He also clearly has Stockholm syndrome.

Actually a human with the intelligence of a dog would very likely not be allowed outside on their own and would be considered the absolute responsibility of the person who takes care of them.

That's a good point. What is humanity anyway? If we can take the rights of these people away.

But if we still consider them people, then how can intelligence be used as a metric for "personhood"?

Those rights are being taken away for their protection.  I don't think anyone's ever been that bad, but they wouldn't be able to function as a normal citizen with full rights.  They'd probably have to stay at some kind of institution.

[Nilik]

I have a cat.
I'm not quite sure if it sees humans as intelligent species.

Of course not, at best we're mobile furniture that dispenses food. At worst, scratching post.

[ChairmanPoo]

That's a good point. What is humanity anyway?

A misserable pile of secrets! But enough talk, have at you!

[Solifuge]

That's a good point. What is humanity anyway?

A misserable pile of secrets! But enough talk, have at you!

Great, no one can postulate on that subject ever again. Thanks a lot Castlevania.

[SirAaronIII]

This is waaay late, but that humans = fire-type is actually really accurate. We dp seem able to wreck forests and other grassy stuff.

[Loud Whispers]

This is waaay late, but that humans = fire-type is actually really accurate. We dp seem able to wreck forests and other grassy stuff.

But some forests require fires to continue existing.