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[RAM]

I would tend to base it on D.F. to start with.
 One hero, many hero cards.
  Hero cards can be played as followers.
   If your hero dies, your followers go home until recruited by a new hero. Their equipment is left in the room that they died in and can be recovered if you return.

Loot is the commodity of choice.

You have one dungeon, if it dies, then game over.
 Dungeon dies when all of its vital rooms are conquered.
  Vital rooms would be, say, farm, living quarters, and mead hall.
   You have a booze stockpile, if it is empty or conquered, then your costs increase or you start losing dwarves.

You could have, say, five cards chosen to start your dungeon(fortress).
 you would have your essential places that you lose the game if you lose them.
 Also modifier cards, like a caravan would mean you would take a penalty to production, but some of your stuff could exist without being connected to the others. Or you could have underground lumber, or water, or lava, things to define your fortress...

You spend loot to place fortress cards.
 Heroes can claim loot from conquered rooms or quests that they play themselves.
 Heroes and fortresses would keep separate loot supplies.
 Fortresses would have to 'fill' a card with loot when they played it, as a cost.
 Fortresses decks have room and item cards.
  Room cards have limits, say, a corridor cannot contain production facilities, has limited soldier capacity, but a bonus to traps. A barracks gets a bonus to soldiers but they don't build traps in there. A large room would be generic, could have anything, but doesn't excel, and has a high capacity. A small room might have less capacity but have a more efficient cost due to higher card usage.
 Rooms can contain things, like forges, which could improve soldier strength, or tailors, which would mostly produce loot. Or even traps, lots and lots of traps, with a flooding mechanism...

There could be a number of wound tokens applied to heroes, like equipment. If you have a head injury, then it applies a penalty to everything, if you have an arm wound, then you cannot use equipment in that arm, if you have, say, four wound tokens, then you die, and some wounds might count for double... Maybe the wounds could be cards that the fortress player plays, better wounds are more expensive. maybe the wounds need to be played in advance, and the hero may completely avoid the card that the wound is on. I would be tempted to separate the wounds deck and the fortress deck if the wounds were cards that needed to be activated by other cards...

Sooo, I get my six starting cards, soil mushroom farm(provides 1 loot per turn, costs 4 loot to rebuild, one door), Resplendent mead hall(provides 3 loot per turn, costs 30 loot to rebuild, +2 in adjacent rooms, four doors), Cramped living quarters(-1 happiness, 4 to rebuild, 1 door), Decrepit still(+2 booze per turn, 20 booze capacity, 4 to rebuild, 1 door), Lava supply(double cost and production of forges), Drunken oaf(1 power, 1 defence, 1 cunning, free to recruit, when played, place up to one 'Drunken' hero from your legends(dead things) pile on the bottom of your hero deck, if hero, search your hero deck for up to 3 other 'Drunken' heroes and play them as followers).

I put all those card on the field for free:

Lava supply            Drunken oaf
      smf
 Clq  Rmh  Ds

I then activate their effects. +3+3=6 loot, happiness is at +1, 4 booze. I draw and play my two drunken swordsmen and a drunken fluffy wamble farmer. And I draw cards from my decks, maybe 6 fortress cards and 3 hero cards, and maybe get a bonus 20 loot to build my fortress with. I didn't draw any rooms, so I place a spinning death-blade(6) and two crossbow dwarves(3+3) in my Resplendent mead hall, which lowers its production by one each, and then put a head then torso wound(6) on the spinning death-blade and a head wound(4) on one crossbow-dwarf and a torso wound(3) on the other.

My opponent attacks my fortress with a retired burglar hero and a loyal swordsman follower, the burglar's high cunning bypasses my trap then the units all attack each other, they kill both crossbow-dwarves and the swordsman uses an ability to take the damage, and dies, but my room didn't take any damage so it is still standing and I get to call in more guards next round and attack unless the enemy hero retreats...

Every round you draw up to a certain number of cards and can can choose to discard them if you want to draw more next round?
Soldiers don't have wounds, they just die if they are attacked by a higher strength than their defence?

[Skyrunner]

^^^ Great idea imo.

Though wounds should probably be separate from generic 'damage'...

And like your idea, wounds can be played as an add-on to fortress rooms.


The number crunching is a slight drawback.

[evilcherry]

good game, but might be too much for ccg.

[Rooster]

Not at all. Various degrees of complexity attract various players.
As long as the game is easy to learn, it can have all kinds of complex interections.

Thanks to all who contributed to this topic, I have enough to make an alpha version of the rules. Expect them shortly.

[webadict]

good game, but might be too much for ccg.

This.

What about:

Multiple heroes with changeable class or race?

This has the problem of keeping track of multiple Hero HP. I've realized that simple is better. It's better, easier, and faster to utilize strategy around one Hero. This also means Resources should be something akin to either Magic with land. Either that, or a separate Token system that tracks Exp to be used to play Hero and Dungeon cards. One Resource is easier for now. We can expand that later if the need arises.

Not at all. Various degrees of complexity attract various players.
As long as the game is easy to learn, it can have all kinds of complex interections.

Thanks to all who contributed to this topic, I have enough to make an alpha version of the rules. Expect them shortly.

But... that's two different things. If it's easy to learn, then there aren't complex interactions. Or these complex interactions aren't as important. His idea also can take far too long to play a game.

[Vanigo]

Why don't we simplify things? One deck per player, containing both hero cards and dungeon cards. The objective is to run your opponent out of cards, signifying that his hero has died and his dungeon has been conquered. You play dungeon cards to attack your opponent, and hero cards to clear dungeon cards. If you have no dungeon cards on the field, you must immediately play one, or, if you don't have one in your hand, draw until you get one and then play it.
This leaves you with two basic win strategies: Assemble a nasty collection of dungeon cards that damages your opponent, milling cards from his deck directly, or make your hero so potent that he can immediately clear any obstacle in his path, burning through all your opponent's dungeon cards.

[evilcherry]

good game, but might be too much for ccg.

This.

What about:

Multiple heroes with changeable class or race?

This has the problem of keeping track of multiple Hero HP. I've realized that simple is better. It's better, easier, and faster to utilize strategy around one Hero. This also means Resources should be something akin to either Magic with land. Either that, or a separate Token system that tracks Exp to be used to play Hero and Dungeon cards. One Resource is easier for now. We can expand that later if the need arises.

Not at all. Various degrees of complexity attract various players.
As long as the game is easy to learn, it can have all kinds of complex interections.

Thanks to all who contributed to this topic, I have enough to make an alpha version of the rules. Expect them shortly.

But... that's two different things. If it's easy to learn, then there aren't complex interactions. Or these complex interactions aren't as important. His idea also can take far too long to play a game.

I still think that class or race as HP would be a sensible idea. Easier to track, and so class change would be a piece of equipment.
And as per RAM's idea: One test run would be enough to kill this. His idea got lots of detail, but it seems none of them are really important, or at least play a non-trivial role in game experience. That is, trying to pack too much into one single game.

Why don't we simplify things? One deck per player, containing both hero cards and dungeon cards. The objective is to run your opponent out of cards, signifying that his hero has died and his dungeon has been conquered. You play dungeon cards to attack your opponent, and hero cards to clear dungeon cards. If you have no dungeon cards on the field, you must immediately play one, or, if you don't have one in your hand, draw until you get one and then play it.
This leaves you with two basic win strategies: Assemble a nasty collection of dungeon cards that damages your opponent, milling cards from his deck directly, or make your hero so potent that he can immediately clear any obstacle in his path, burning through all your opponent's dungeon cards.

I think the OP specifically want a separate deck. If he allows a combined deck I'll die for this idea.

[webadict]

good game, but might be too much for ccg.

This.

What about:

Multiple heroes with changeable class or race?

This has the problem of keeping track of multiple Hero HP. I've realized that simple is better. It's better, easier, and faster to utilize strategy around one Hero. This also means Resources should be something akin to either Magic with land. Either that, or a separate Token system that tracks Exp to be used to play Hero and Dungeon cards. One Resource is easier for now. We can expand that later if the need arises.

Not at all. Various degrees of complexity attract various players.
As long as the game is easy to learn, it can have all kinds of complex interections.

Thanks to all who contributed to this topic, I have enough to make an alpha version of the rules. Expect them shortly.

But... that's two different things. If it's easy to learn, then there aren't complex interactions. Or these complex interactions aren't as important. His idea also can take far too long to play a game.

I still think that class or race as HP would be a sensible idea. Easier to track, and so class change would be a piece of equipment.
And as per RAM's idea: One test run would be enough to kill this. His idea got lots of detail, but it seems none of them are really important, or at least play a non-trivial role in game experience. That is, trying to pack too much into one single game.

Well, I think Class and Race could be a form of Equipment, but I don't think it should determine your HP. I think HP is a separate stat that you keep track of. It can be modified by Equipment, but it is not tracked by Equipment.

[Powder Miner]

If we're going changeable class we could have a base card that is race, which classes are put under.

[Vanigo]

To elaborate on my previous post, here's what I'm thinking:

At the start of the game, you draw as many cards as you want. The advantage of drawing lots of cards is obvious, as is the disadvantage. Each turn you can play one power card. These are a bit like MtG lands in that they don't do anything but serve as prerequisites for other cards. There are five types: fighter, thief, wizard, cleric, and danger. Hero cards have class requirements - a fireball spell with [wizard 2] ties up two wizard power cards. You can have as many hero cards in play as you want, as long as their total requirements don't exceed your power in any category. Dungeon cards work the same way, except that they use danger. (Some low-powered cards, like a potion of healing or a kobold recruit, have zero cost. Some hero cards may also be classless, able to use any hero power cards.)
On your turn, you first draw - you must draw at least one card, and you can draw as many more as you want. Then your dungeon cards process - for example, a goblin grunt with [Attack physical 3] mills three cards from your opponent's deck (reduced if he has a physical armor hero card in play). (Other dungeon cards have different effects, like forcing your opponent to discard from his hand, or destroying hero cards in play, but damage - straight milling - is the most common.) Then, during your main turn, you can play new cards if you have room, and activate your hero cards as you see fit to clear your opponent's dungeon cards. Most hero cards can be used once a turn, and some are discarded when you use them. Every dungeon card has at least one clear condition - the aforementioned goblin grunt may have [Fight 3], in which case you could clear it by using a broadsword with [Fight 3], or by using a [Fight 1] dagger and a [Fight 2] shortbow. Or, if the goblin also has [Cunning 4], you could expend your [Cunning 5] potion of invisibility to get by him. Not all hero cards are for clearing dungeon cards, though - some have other effects. Notably, healing cards allow you to take hero cards (but not dungeon cards) from your discard pile and put them on top of your deck.

So, yeah, that's what I'm thinking. The basic rules are very simple, but there's room for some good interactions and interesting card design. Needs a lot of work to balance the dungeon side of the game with the hero side, but that's going to be true of any game with this premise.

Edit: However, I'm not really sure where race would fit in. Maybe you have one character card and one dungeon location card at the start that impose deckbuilding restrictions? I think the WoW TCG does something like that.)

[Kashyyk]

I quite like most of that, minus the milling of cards. That's what I think HP should be for.

Although, what's to stop me from going first, drawing all but 1 card, and then playing all my power cards, followed by every single other card, in one turn?

[Vanigo]

I quite like most of that, minus the milling of cards. That's what I think HP should be for.

Although, what's to stop me from going first, drawing all but 1 card, and then playing all my power cards, followed by every single other card, in one turn?

Because you can only play one power card each turn. (Besides, then you'd lose at the start of your second turn, before all your dungeon cards go off.)
And I think milling as damage has to stay, or else we have to redesign a lot of things. If damage doesn't inflict milling, then you don't have to worry nearly as much about running out of cards, and drawing lots of cards becomes an easy choice. So drawing as many cards as you want has to go, too. But then the problem is this: when you have no dungeon cards on the field or in your hand, you draw until you get one you can play. This turns into a big potential advantage if you have no other way to draw tons of cards.
Although, I guess you could change it to "discard from the top of your library until you find a dungeon card, then play it". I like the milling, though. It simplifies things. Less to keep track of.

[webadict]

I quite like most of that, minus the milling of cards. That's what I think HP should be for.

Although, what's to stop me from going first, drawing all but 1 card, and then playing all my power cards, followed by every single other card, in one turn?

Because you can only play one power card each turn. (Besides, then you'd lose at the start of your second turn, before all your dungeon cards go off.)
And I think milling as damage has to stay, or else we have to redesign a lot of things. If damage doesn't inflict milling, then you don't have to worry nearly as much about running out of cards, and drawing lots of cards becomes an easy choice. So drawing as many cards as you want has to go, too. But then the problem is this: when you have no dungeon cards on the field or in your hand, you draw until you get one you can play. This turns into a big potential advantage if you have no other way to draw tons of cards.
Although, I guess you could change it to "discard from the top of your library until you find a dungeon card, then play it". I like the milling, though. It simplifies things. Less to keep track of.

What's to stop me from continually playing only healing cards until my opponent decks out?

[Skyrunner]

2 decks still should be kept.

Milling from Hero deck.

[webadict]

2 decks still should be kept.

Milling from Hero deck.

Milling is such a bad idea.

Case and point: I draw a card on the first turn that takes 15 Resources to play but basically destroys my opponent.
Your idea: Discard the top 15 cards to destroy your opponent. Laugh as he is utterly decimated because it is the first turn.
My idea: Take several turns to build up the necessary amount of Resources while simultaneously having to defend and attack your opponent. About 10 turns later, have the necessary Resources to play the card. By that time, your opponent has adequately prepared defenses.

The reason Resources are used is because you don't automatically start with the ability to play the best cards.