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[Skyrunner]

Why are you talking to me? O_o

I did not propose the idea.
I don't even support it o_o I just said that if Rooster wants to mill, they should be separate decks.

I want the Resources idea. I especially like the one with the DF references.

[Vanigo]

What's to stop me from continually playing only healing cards until my opponent decks out?

If you can manage enough healing, nothing. But there's a catch: You probably won't be drawing many dungeon cards. If your opponent can clear all your active dungeon cards, you're going to have to pick up a huge stack to get to the next one.

Milling is such a bad idea.

Case and point: I draw a card on the first turn that takes 15 Resources to play but basically destroys my opponent.
Your idea: Discard the top 15 cards to destroy your opponent. Laugh as he is utterly decimated because it is the first turn.
My idea: Take several turns to build up the necessary amount of Resources while simultaneously having to defend and attack your opponent. About 10 turns later, have the necessary Resources to play the card. By that time, your opponent has adequately prepared defenses.

The reason Resources are used is because you don't automatically start with the ability to play the best cards.

...what? There's been some serious miscommunication here. I never said anything about milling yourself in order to use cards. Milling is what happens when you take damage. Get hit by an orc for [Physical 3]? You get milled for 3. And playing big cards early on is restricted. You play power cards, one per turn, and the power cards you have in play limit what cards you can have on the field. [Edit: Oh, milling as a cost was evilcherry's idea. NM.]
Thinking about things, there is the issue that "draw as many cards as you want" removes a lot of randomness from the game, which isn't really a good thing. But the hero side of the game has a ton of built-in card advantage over the dungeon side, since dungeon cards are discarded when defeated and hero cards in play are only occasionally discarded, so without a mechanic to bring it back into some semblance of balance, the game is unworkable. (Being able to draw as many cards as you want does the job nicely, since it makes card advantage largely meaningless.) I suppose that might be one reason to have two decks - it lets you draw lots of dungeon cards while restricting hero card draw. I really don't like the two decks thing, though. It's clunky and overcomplicated.

[Vanigo]

I've put together a bunch of example cards - enough that people could make decks and try it out, although I'm sure the balance is way off. Probably needs some higher-end cards, too.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Card name Cost Keywords Effect

Healing Potion Hero 0 Tool Heal 2, expendable
Dagger Hero 1 Tool, Weapon Fight 1
10-Foot Pole Hero 1 Tool Cunning 1
Savviness Hero 1 Skill Wisdom 1
Explosive Arrow Hero 1 Tool Fight 5, expendable
Potion of Invisibility Hero 1 Tool Cunning 5, expendable
Accurate Rumors Hero 1 Tool Wisdom 5, expendable
Broadsword Fighter 1 Tool, Weapon Fight 3
Chainmail Fighter 1 Tool, Armor Physical Armor 1
Lockpicks Thief 1 Tool Cunning 3
Shortbow Thief 1 Tool, Weapon Fight 2, Cunning 1
Fireball Wizard 1 Spell, Fire Fight 3
Painstaking Research Wizard 1 Skill Wisdom 3
Scroll of Teleport Wizard 1 Tool, Spell Defeat one Obstacle, Expendable
Regeneration Cleric 1 Spell Heal 2
Turn Undead Cleric 1 Skill Fight 4, Cunning 4, Wisdom 4, against Undead only
Battleaxe Fighter 2 Tool, Weapon Fight 6
Veteran's Eye Fighter 2 Skill Fight 3, Cunning 1, Wisdom 1
Enchanted Shield Fighter 2 Tool, Armor Fight 1, Physical Armor 2
Acrobatics Thief 2 Skill Fight 3, Cunning 3
Careful Planning Thief 2 Skill Cunning 3, Wisdom 3
Scrying Wizard 2 Spell Cunning 2, Wisdom 4
Life-Draining Staff Wizard 2 Tool Every time you defeat a monster, heal 4
Blessed Mace Cleric 2 Tool, Weapon Fight 3, Wisdom 3
Holy Protection Cleric 2 Spell Physical Armor 1, Magic Armor 1

Card name Cost Keywords Defeat Effect

Kobold Recruit Danger 0 Monster Fight 1, Cunning 1 Physical 1
Spear Trap Danger 0 Trap Cunning 2 Physical 3, Expendable
Goblin Grunt Danger 1 Monster Fight 4, Cunning 2 Physical 3
Goblin Sparkmage Danger 1 Monster Fight 2, Cunning 4 Magic 3
Skeletal Beast Danger 1 Monster, Undead Fight 4, Wisdom 2 Physical 3
Labyrinth Danger 1 Obstacle Cunning 5, Wisdom 5 Mental 1
Hostage-Taker Danger 1 Monster Fighting 1, Cunning 8 Mental 1, destroy one hero power card if defeated with Fighting
Potion of Confusion Danger 1 Trap Wisdom 4 Opponent discards his hand, expendable
Ogre Danger 2 Monster Fight 6, Cunning 4 Physical 4
Phantom Danger 2 Monster, Undead Cunning 7, Wisdom 4 Magic 4
Pit Viper Danger 2 Monster, Animal Fight 3, Cunning 3 Physical 8
Imp Danger 2 Monster, Demon Fight 7, Wisdom 5 Magic 3
Acid Trap Danger 2 Trap Cunning 7 Magic 3, destroy one tool, expendable
Trapped Hallway Danger 2 Trap Cunning 4 Physical 4
Cursed Jewel Danger 2 Trap Wisdom 4 Magic 3
Zombie Hordes Danger 2 Monster, Undead Fight 5 Physical 4
Underground River Danger 2 Obstacle Cunning 8, Wisdom 9 None
Thieving Specter Danger 3 Monster, Undead Cunning 4, Wisdom 3 Magic 1, destroy one tool
Goblin Tinker Danger 3 Monster Fight 6, Cunning 5 Your traps get +1 difficulty
Orcish Warlord Danger 3 Monster Fight 5, Wisdom 6 Your monsters get +1 damage
Golem Danger 3 Monster Fight 8, Cunning 7 Physical 6
Voodoo Doll Danger 3 Ritual Cunning 3, Wisdom 3 Magic 4, cannot be attacked if you have an obstacle in play
Chant of Decay Danger 3 Ritual Fight 3, Wisdom 3 Opponent's tools get -1 strength, cannot be attacked if you have a monster in play
Rune of Reanimation Danger 3 Ritual Wisdom 6 Take an Undead card from your graveyard and return it to play. You still need sufficient Danger to support it.
Rune-Scribed Door Danger 3 Obstacle Cunning 12, Wisdom 10 Magic 2
Land Mine Danger 3 Trap Cunning 10 Physical 10, expendable



[Skyrunner]

^^^ It's best if you use <tt> instead of <code>, because some browsers don't format <code> correctly.

..Including mine.

[Powder Miner]

I've put together a bunch of example cards - enough that people could make decks and try it out, although I'm sure the balance is way off. Probably needs some higher-end cards, too.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Card name         Cost      Keywords      Effect   
            
Healing Potion         Hero 0      Tool         Heal 2, expendable   
Dagger            Hero 1      Tool, Weapon      Fight 1   
10-Foot Pole         Hero 1      Tool         Cunning 1   
Savviness         Hero 1      Skill         Wisdom 1   
Explosive Arrow         Hero 1      Tool         Fight 5, expendable   
Potion of Invisibility      Hero 1      Tool         Cunning 5, expendable   
Accurate Rumors         Hero 1      Tool         Wisdom 5, expendable   
Broadsword         Fighter 1   Tool, Weapon      Fight 3   
Chainmail         Fighter 1   Tool, Armor      Physical Armor 1   
Lockpicks         Thief 1      Tool         Cunning 3   
Shortbow         Thief 1      Tool, Weapon      Fight 2, Cunning 1   
Fireball         Wizard 1   Spell, Fire      Fight 3   
Painstaking Research      Wizard 1   Skill         Wisdom 3   
Scroll of Teleport      Wizard 1   Tool, Spell      Defeat one Obstacle, Expendable   
Regeneration         Cleric 1   Spell         Heal 2   
Turn Undead         Cleric 1   Skill         Fight 4, Cunning 4, Wisdom 4, against Undead only   
Battleaxe         Fighter 2   Tool, Weapon      Fight 6   
Veteran's Eye         Fighter 2   Skill         Fight 3, Cunning 1, Wisdom 1   
Enchanted Shield      Fighter 2   Tool, Armor      Fight 1, Physical Armor 2   
Acrobatics         Thief 2      Skill         Fight 3, Cunning 3   
Careful Planning      Thief 2      Skill         Cunning 3, Wisdom 3   
Scrying            Wizard 2   Spell         Cunning 2, Wisdom 4   
Life-Draining Staff      Wizard 2   Tool         Every time you defeat a monster, heal 4   
Blessed Mace         Cleric 2   Tool, Weapon      Fight 3, Wisdom 3   
Holy Protection         Cleric 2   Spell         Physical Armor 1, Magic Armor 1   
            
Card name         Cost      Keywords      Defeat            Effect
            
Kobold Recruit         Danger 0   Monster         Fight 1, Cunning 1      Physical 1
Spear Trap         Danger 0   Trap         Cunning 2         Physical 3, Expendable
Goblin Grunt         Danger 1   Monster         Fight 4, Cunning 2      Physical 3
Goblin Sparkmage      Danger 1   Monster         Fight 2, Cunning 4      Magic 3
Skeletal Beast         Danger 1   Monster, Undead      Fight 4, Wisdom 2      Physical 3
Labyrinth         Danger 1   Obstacle      Cunning 5, Wisdom 5      Mental 1
Hostage-Taker         Danger 1   Monster         Fighting 1, Cunning 8      Mental 1, destroy one hero power card if defeated with Fighting
Potion of Confusion      Danger 1   Trap         Wisdom 4         Opponent discards his hand, expendable
Ogre            Danger 2   Monster         Fight 6, Cunning 4      Physical 4
Phantom            Danger 2   Monster, Undead      Cunning 7, Wisdom 4      Magic 4
Pit Viper         Danger 2   Monster, Animal      Fight 3, Cunning 3      Physical 8
Imp            Danger 2   Monster, Demon      Fight 7, Wisdom 5      Magic 3
Acid Trap         Danger 2   Trap         Cunning 7         Magic 3, destroy one tool, expendable
Trapped Hallway         Danger 2   Trap         Cunning 4         Physical 4
Cursed Jewel         Danger 2   Trap         Wisdom 4         Magic 3
Zombie Hordes         Danger 2   Monster, Undead      Fight 5            Physical 4
Underground River      Danger 2   Obstacle      Cunning 8, Wisdom 9      None
Thieving Specter      Danger 3   Monster, Undead      Cunning 4, Wisdom 3      Magic 1, destroy one tool
Goblin Tinker         Danger 3   Monster         Fight 6, Cunning 5      Your traps get +1 difficulty
Orcish Warlord         Danger 3   Monster         Fight 5, Wisdom 6      Your monsters get +1 damage
Golem            Danger 3   Monster         Fight 8, Cunning 7      Physical 6
Voodoo Doll         Danger 3   Ritual         Cunning 3, Wisdom 3      Magic 4, cannot be attacked if you have an obstacle in play
Chant of Decay         Danger 3   Ritual         Fight 3, Wisdom 3      Opponent's tools get -1 strength, cannot be attacked if you have a monster in play
Rune of Reanimation      Danger 3   Ritual         Wisdom 6         Take an Undead card from your graveyard and return it to play. You still need sufficient Danger to support it.
Rune-Scribed Door      Danger 3   Obstacle      Cunning 12, Wisdom 10      Magic 2
Land Mine         Danger 3   Trap         Cunning 10         Physical 10, expendable

[adwarf]

Well I'll do some stats

Spoiler: Treasure Room (click to show/hide)

Gives Hero 5 Gold when Destroyed
Reduces Danger Level by 3 (Meaning more dangerous cards, or more numerous cards can be put here)
Danger Level: 0
Picture:
~ Pending ~

Spoiler: Horde of Rats (click to show/hide)

Danger Level: 1
Gold Reward : 1
Fight: 1
Can Cause Allies to Gain Panic! Status
Picture:
~ Pending ~

Spoiler: Dragon-Kin (click to show/hide)

Danger Level: 5
Gold Reward: 6
Fight: 4
Can Cause Insane status allies, or heroes
Image:
~ Pending ~

Will work on more!

[Powder Miner]

May I suggest ambusher as a class?

It would be low on fight but wouldn't be able to be attacked by monsters.

[Vanigo]

:Rules:

Okay, issue:
Can you explore more than one room a turn? If not, then if you play second, and you can keep your hero alive, you win. Just spam low-danger rooms such that you never have less than two at the start of your opponent's turn. He won't be able to clear them all out, so he won't be able to search, so there's no way for him to mill your dungeon deck and he'll run out of cards first.
If you can search more than one room a turn, there's a different problem. Keeping your hero at 0 danger becomes a game-breaking strategy, since you can explore every room, and never fight anything. Victory then goes to whoever rolls better when milling.
You really can't let the hero dictate the dungeon's danger level. There needs to be pressure on the hero to keep up with the advancing difficulty.

Also, everything else aside, putting whoever plays first on a ten-turn timer before he loses is a terrible idea.

[evilcherry]

I'm sticking with Vanigo for the time being. CCGs are meant to be played within a short timeframe, so unless you have a very good reason, you should not introduce extra complexity, fiddliness and randomness (that you can never manage) into it.

[RAM]

I think that to limit complexity people should not have to count things or generate additional randomness. So if something accrues, have tokens, you can just add or remove them from on top of a card and so long as there are not significant points, such as a limit or a minimum usage amount, and you could go up to about five for some sort of ability cost. So, say every dwarf costs booze per turn, and every still adds it, well, you just have a pile of booze tokens, and at the start of each turn you methodically go through your stills, adding booze to your pile, and then go through your dwarves, taking it away. It may be a little fiddly, but should be fairly simple. Having random values means that you have to reference something, maybe all random effects are the same, you roll a 5 or 6 then the listed effect happens, otherwise it doesn't, well that is pretty simple, but if you start having tables for individual effects, or multiple effect modifying the result of the roll, then dice rolls can get a bit colourful...

[evilcherry]

it is what through the ages is. you only have a few things to check each turn(pop/happiness, resource/corruption, science, points, and command allowances). mechanically its only step by step but the game is very heavy as a result.

I can see booze and overcrowdedness as racial mechanics, but not base.


p.s. though if this is an Euro, it will look very Rosenberg-ish. Good place to start, really.