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[vjek]

cliffs next to fresh water is very much what I'm looking for. I don't need to many z levels, just 3 or so, though more is always nice. What I'm more concerned about is width, I'd like the river to be at least six tiles wide.

Take a look at this embark

With this worldgen

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Created in DF v0.34.07.

[WORLD_GEN]
   [TITLE:ANGLE2]
   [SEED:gkAKW4CsmgMaskkiaYE0]
   [HISTORY_SEED:SioGy8k4C4yG4IWkSccU]
   [NAME_SEED:K24oUg2WI8KWiY8M6SeG]
   [CREATURE_SEED:KecKAQ8wMGAKyQEI4Oc4]
   [DIM:65:65]
   [EMBARK_POINTS:2500]
   [END_YEAR:250]
   [BEAST_END_YEAR:200:99]
   [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:0]
   [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1]
   [ELEVATION:100:400:0:0]
   [RAINFALL:75:100:0:0]
   [TEMPERATURE:100:105:0:0]
   [DRAINAGE:75:100:0:0]
   [VOLCANISM:0:100:0:0]
   [SAVAGERY:0:100:0:0]
   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:2:80:0:0:0:20]
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [MINERAL_SCARCITY:500]
   [MEGABEAST_CAP:4]
   [SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:9]
   [TITAN_NUMBER:3]
   [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
   [DEMON_NUMBER:0]
   [NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:0]
   [BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:0]
   [VAMPIRE_NUMBER:0]
   [WEREBEAST_NUMBER:0]
   [SECRET_NUMBER:0]
   [REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:0]
   [DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:22]
   [EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:0]
   [EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:0]
   [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:0:0:0]
   [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:0:0:0]
   [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:0]
   [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
   [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
   [VOLCANO_MIN:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
   [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:1000]
   [RIVER_MINS:800:800]
   [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:0]
   [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
   [SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:1]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:10]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:15]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:10]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:15]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:5]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:40]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:16]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:2]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:2]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:3]
   [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:2]
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25]
   [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:0]
   [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:0]
   [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
   [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:10]
   [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:5000]
   [SITE_CAP:100]
   [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
   [ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]

The northeast quadrant of the embark has a 6-Z canyon/cliff with a river that's at least 6 tiles wide.  If that's the type of thing you want, we can find a better spot, I'm just trying to get the ideal nailed down.

[caddybear]

Any words on how to get loads and loads of wars in the world gen? I'm willing to mod the entities, if that's what it takes. Sadly making all the civs live in cities in the plains didn't seem to work =/

[vjek]

Any words on how to get loads and loads of wars in the world gen? I'm willing to mod the entities, if that's what it takes. Sadly making all the civs live in cities in the plains didn't seem to work =/

Add more races, even if they're copies, with unique [ENTITY:NAME] entries, in entity_default.txt in the /raws/objects folder.  You can take [ENTITY:EVIL] for example (goblins), and make 6 copies of it, [ENTITY:SORTAEVIL], [ENTITY:VERYEVIL], etc as many as you want.

I removed all the races except dwarves and goblins and made 6 copies of the goblin race.  I got 6 unqiue civs, all of which show up on the civilization interaction screen, both prior to embark, and after.  However, to be at war with them, you'd probably have to make your dwarves babysnatchers to create offenses as time passes.  I haven't tried that.

So far, I've only ever seen one WAR tag show up on a given embark screen at a time, regardless of how many civs are there.  Even with 6 goblin civs, only one will be at WAR in a given world tile, even if the next one, in the adjacent embark, is a different civ at WAR.  Of course, this is only in my experience, so things could be different for anyone else.  And perhaps it's possible to be at WAR with all of them, if you turn dwarves into babysnatchers.

It may be necessary to create/copy Goblins (in creature_standard.txt) and create unique races for each unique civ, as well.  Not difficult, but I haven't tested it yet.  That may allow for multiple race-wars simultaneously.

For the moment, I'm testing this 6 goblin civ version to see if I can get multiple sieges per season/year with >100 goblins in each siege.

[Martin]

Any help with Morul's request? I can get close, but the sand + clay is proving particularly elusive for me (I'm guessing the combination of high and low drainage is the problem). I figure the surface magma is mostly a case of repetition before I hit it. I'm happy to do the effort here, but I would appreciate some guidance on how to improve my odds.

[Angle]

vjek: That's pretty much what I've got, except I want more volcanoes, I have some of the intervening elevation values in order to get lakes, andI don't have all the x/y variances set to 0. Why do you have those like that, by the way? It seems strange.

[vjek]

vjek: That's pretty much what I've got, except I want more volcanoes, I have some of the intervening elevation values in order to get lakes, andI don't have all the x/y variances set to 0. Why do you have those like that, by the way? It seems strange.

It varies from world to world.  Sometimes the variance helps, sometimes it hinders.  It depends on the desired parameters.  High variance can, if desired, create many small biomes.  Very low or none generates very large biomes, depending on the elevation, drainage, rain, etc.  Not all worlds require huge numbers of biomes, so I start with no variance, always, and turn it up if necessary.

Ok, so that type of thing with a volcano.  Alrighty, lets see what we can do here...

[vjek]

Any help with Morul's request? I can get close, but the sand + clay is proving particularly elusive for me (I'm guessing the combination of high and low drainage is the problem). I figure the surface magma is mostly a case of repetition before I hit it. I'm happy to do the effort here, but I would appreciate some guidance on how to improve my odds.

I can match all the parameters but one, and yes, sand & clay appear to be mutually exclusive most of the time.  Sorry bud, no time to chase that one right now.

[Angle]

I already have it set up to generate lots of volcanoes. I'm genning a world now, Hopefully it'll have what I want. If not I'm bumping volcanoes up to 1600.

[Martin]

Any help with Morul's request? I can get close, but the sand + clay is proving particularly elusive for me (I'm guessing the combination of high and low drainage is the problem). I figure the surface magma is mostly a case of repetition before I hit it. I'm happy to do the effort here, but I would appreciate some guidance on how to improve my odds.

I can match all the parameters but one, and yes, sand & clay appear to be mutually exclusive most of the time.  Sorry bud, no time to chase that one right now.

Can you shoot me your best shot and I'll tweak and churn from there?

[vjek]

... Can you shoot me your best shot and I'll tweak and churn from there?

Soitenly!  The trick to this one was to get at least one Necromancer tower per world, so if you don't see an "I", just abort and retry.  If it doesn't show up by year 250, it probably won't.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[WORLD_GEN]
   [TITLE:MARTIN1]
   [DIM:17:17]
   [EMBARK_POINTS:2500]
   [END_YEAR:550]
   [BEAST_END_YEAR:500:99]
   [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:0]
   [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1]
   [ELEVATION:100:400:0:0]
   [RAINFALL:33:100:101:101]
   [TEMPERATURE:75:90:101:101]
   [DRAINAGE:33:100:101:101]
   [VOLCANISM:100:100:3200:3200]
   [SAVAGERY:0:100:101:101]
   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:2:9:0:0:0:1]
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [MINERAL_SCARCITY:500]
   [MEGABEAST_CAP:1]
   [SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:1]
   [TITAN_NUMBER:1]
   [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
   [DEMON_NUMBER:0]
   [NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:0]
   [BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:0]
   [VAMPIRE_NUMBER:0]
   [WEREBEAST_NUMBER:0]
   [SECRET_NUMBER:900]
   [REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:0]
   [DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:0]
   [EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:0]
   [EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:0]
   [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:0:0:0]
   [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:0:0:0]
   [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:0]
   [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
   [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
   [VOLCANO_MIN:30]
   [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
   [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:100]
   [RIVER_MINS:10:0]
   [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
   [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
   [SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:1]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:50]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:50]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:10]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:15]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:2]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:40]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:16]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:2]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:2]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:3]
   [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:2]
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:1]
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:5]
   [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:2]
   [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:2]
   [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
   [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:6]
   [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:5000]
   [SITE_CAP:50]
   [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
   [ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]

[Martin]

Ok, because I suck at this world genning stuff - if there are no evil squares [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:0:0:0], wouldn't that impede the ability of necro towers to establish?

[Martin]

Ok, I'm very close. I lowered min drainage and rainfall in order to get more sand, and cranked up variance for both to 1000 to get more regions with close proximity of the two. I can now reliably get sand/clay in the same 4x4. Getting trees, volcano, and river in there as well is just a matter of time.


I added some small/evil squares and maybe 10% of the maps get a single tower now. Any thoughts on increasing those odds without turning too much of the map evil?

[vjek]

Ok, I'm very close. I lowered min drainage and rainfall in order to get more sand, and cranked up variance for both to 1000 to get more regions with close proximity of the two. I can now reliably get sand/clay in the same 4x4. Getting trees, volcano, and river in there as well is just a matter of time.


I added some small/evil squares and maybe 10% of the maps get a single tower now. Any thoughts on increasing those odds without turning too much of the map evil?

Yeah, Evil doesn't have much to do with Necromancers, as far as I can tell.  The important things seem to be: lots of death (conflict with other races) and enough time passing that someone finds the secret book of undead.  So, crank up the civs and crank up the time passing.

Increasing sites can also help, but generally I find more than 2 or 3 times the number of civs leads to tediously long worldgen for no real benefit. (so if you have 10 civs, no more than 30 sites is fast)  I typically never put my site cap above 50, but if your worldgen isn't taking too long, feel free to crank it up... Necro Towers are built on sites, not on civs, so the more sites, the better the chance. ( Site Cap After Civ Creation is the field I'm referring to)

It's also worth mentioning that if your min/max volcanism are both set to 100, you have a very good chance of having a submerged volcano (magma tube/lava tube) somewhere in the embark of a 4x4, so even if you don't SEE a volcano on the surface, it's possible there may be one lurking beneath.  I only say this because I've managed to find a really good embark in the past, but it's missing a volcano.  Then i embark, prospect, find "LAVA_STONE" and voila, it's all good, there's a volcano down below.

[fakechuck]

This is good but not quite the amount of clay I was hoping. Which options would you recommend tweaking to adjust that, or should I just remove the seed and gen some similar worlds?

Heheh, there's 35k soil tiles.   But if it's plain "clay" you specifically need, rather than "silty clay" soil, you'll definitely need another embark.  Yep, I would just remove the seeds and go for it.  There will be few, if any, rejections, and many suitable sites per world, from what I saw.

I suppose I wasn't really clear about it. It isn't so much a quantity of clay that I am looking for as large continuous areas of clay that can be hollowed out to provide subterranean tree farms without the micromanagement of defense against fliers that comes with cavern farms. For example, I had a recent random gen in 34.09 that gave me an embark with practically three entire layers of clay, soil, and sand. This makes me wonder about two things: are there worldgen parameters that influence the grouping or dispersal of materials, or is there some way to look at the "worldgen parameters" that are used by any given random world that may provide hints to this?

I will certainly give the parameters you provided a few more seedless college tries when I have some more time to devote to it, but I am mostly curious about the parameters involved here.

[vjek]

... I will certainly give the parameters you provided a few more seedless college tries when I have some more time to devote to it, but I am mostly curious about the parameters involved here.

I have definitely seen worlds with more deep soil than others.  That is, worlds that have up to 5 layers below the embark of various types of soil, before the first stone layer.

1 soil layer is almost always present, 2-3 are relatively common, 4 or 5 is rare.  I haven't tested it, but I would imagine a combination of rainfall, drainage, temperature, and the resulting biome would determine soil thickness.  Extremes, such as deserts, glaciers, mountains and such would likely produce less soil than those more common.

It's too bad the finder doesn't let you set it to = deep soil, rather than "up to" deep soil, then you could find it very quickly.