Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[LordBaal]

More likely if is fast enough

[Thursday Postal]

I'm not sure about hydras.  Some depictions hiss and snap between heads, some don't (by design or omission, I don't know).

This might be kind of relevant. I was reading something about the mental capabilies of animals, and according to a study snakes lack a centralized awareness:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It seems that a snake does not have a central representation of a mouse but relies solely on transduced information. The snake exploits three different sensory systems in relation to prey, like a mouse. To strike the mouse, the snake uses its visual system (or thermal sensors). When struck, the mouse normally does not die immediately, but runs away for some distance. To locate the mouse, once the prey has been struck, the snake uses its sense of smell. The search behavior is exclusively wired to this modality. Even if the mouse happens to die right in front of the eyes of the snake, it will still follow the smell trace of the mouse in order to find it. This unimodality is particularly evident in snakes like boas and pythons, where the prey often is held fast in the coils of the snake's body, when it e.g. hangs from a branch. Despite the fact that the snake must have ample proprioceptory information about the location of the prey it holds, it searches stochastically for it, all around, only with the help of the olfactory sense organs (Sjolander, 1993, p. 3).

    Finally, after the mouse has been located, the snake must find its head in order to swallow it. This could obviously be done with the aid of smell or sight, but in snakes this process uses only tactile information. Thus the snake uses three separate modalities to catch and eat a mouse (Dennett, 1995b, p. 691).

So in this case, a hydra would probably be more mentally advanced (because of magic? or just because of how complex they are) than a snake but it seems there's somewhat of a precedent of 'separated awareness' in some reptiles. They all work together in a snake, so maybe it's just a bit more complex in hydras (several sets of sensory awareness instead of one).

As for Ettins, I doubt this would come up in gameplay in any way at all, but split brain studies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain (where, for medical reasons, the bit connecting the two halves of the brain is split) causes some interesting things to happen.

Of course, this is probably too biological and not magic enough for a fantasy game, I just wanted to share my thoughts.

[Rose]

Nothing is too biological for DF. Keep in mind that internal organs are modelled, and Dwarves have bigger livers than other races.

[LordBaal]

That's interesting, and as Japa says, dwarf fortress has an ample base of biology that is deterministic to how the game is played and the outcomes of interactions (mostly violent ones).

It also has magic, it suits all tastes.

[TheDorf]

Will vision at night be updated with this release? I haven't read anything about it, but thought it seemed logical to update along with sneaking.
If not, when are you planning to do this? Sneaking into a camp at night is a pain right now, seeing as you can't see a campfire or anything from a distance.

I haven't gotten into it, if I remember.  I don't think the list of necessary changes is that long, since we haven't done much with lighting at all...  so when you say "a campfire or anything"...  is there anything else?  Just fires you set or something?  There's the issue of enemy vision, which is completely different now.

Alright, thanks. At the moment, I'm talking about campfires (Assuming camps would get campfires if you updated vision at night), and torches later on when (if?) they get added. Seeing as you don't seem to have any plans for updating lighting this release, may I ask when you think updated lighting could make it?

[mastahcheese]

Hey, Toady, you haven't posted the link to your FoTF reply in your devlog yet.

Apparantly something wrong with my computer.

[Trif]

Hey, Toady, you haven't posted the link to your FoTF reply in your devlog yet.

He did post it earlier today.

[mastahcheese]

Hey, Toady, you haven't posted the link to your FoTF reply in your devlog yet.

He did post it earlier today.

hmm... Every time I check, it's not showing up, maybe something wrong with my computer, I'll go un-color it.

[Zavvnao]

How do I donate money?

[mastahcheese]

How do I donate money?

You can go to This Page.
Just scroll down to find the support button

[tahujdt]

I'm not sure about hydras.  Some depictions hiss and snap between heads, some don't (by design or omission, I don't know).

This might be kind of relevant. I was reading something about the mental capabilies of animals, and according to a study snakes lack a centralized awareness:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It seems that a snake does not have a central representation of a mouse but relies solely on transduced information. The snake exploits three different sensory systems in relation to prey, like a mouse. To strike the mouse, the snake uses its visual system (or thermal sensors). When struck, the mouse normally does not die immediately, but runs away for some distance. To locate the mouse, once the prey has been struck, the snake uses its sense of smell. The search behavior is exclusively wired to this modality. Even if the mouse happens to die right in front of the eyes of the snake, it will still follow the smell trace of the mouse in order to find it. This unimodality is particularly evident in snakes like boas and pythons, where the prey often is held fast in the coils of the snake's body, when it e.g. hangs from a branch. Despite the fact that the snake must have ample proprioceptory information about the location of the prey it holds, it searches stochastically for it, all around, only with the help of the olfactory sense organs (Sjolander, 1993, p. 3).

    Finally, after the mouse has been located, the snake must find its head in order to swallow it. This could obviously be done with the aid of smell or sight, but in snakes this process uses only tactile information. Thus the snake uses three separate modalities to catch and eat a mouse (Dennett, 1995b, p. 691).

So in this case, a hydra would probably be more mentally advanced (because of magic? or just because of how complex they are) than a snake but it seems there's somewhat of a precedent of 'separated awareness' in some reptiles. They all work together in a snake, so maybe it's just a bit more complex in hydras (several sets of sensory awareness instead of one).

As for Ettins, I doubt this would come up in gameplay in any way at all, but split brain studies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain (where, for medical reasons, the bit connecting the two halves of the brain is split) causes some interesting things to happen.

Of course, this is probably too biological and not magic enough for a fantasy game, I just wanted to share my thoughts.

I saw a two-headed lizard on TV. It was a gila monster, I think. Apparently the two heads are separate and mostly control different sides of the body, so it is difficult to move.

They named the two heads "Zack" and "Wheezy". I thought I had that show out of my head, too...

[Mel_Vixen]

Well since a hydra is bigger one can asume that the brains have also more volume. From personal experience i can say that bigger dogs often (especially the ones for herd-protection which are bread for self sufficency) are "more" intelligent then say a "Yorkshire Terrier". So more volume and surface in a brain/in brains can translate into more intelligence. Looking at Ravens and Parrots it also does not need much brain for semi-intelligent and social behavior. 

On the other hands many dinosaurs had brains the size of a walnut - so its all open to speculation. 

[LordBaal]

Well, they had their many million years quota to destroy the planet and did nothing. Now we are doing it in less than a million years, that proves that proportional size of the brain and the body accounts for more belligerency.

On a serious note, I would think that an animal with that many brains would have coordination issues unless one of the heads take control of the body and the others just tag along and control only from their necks up, kind of a the leader of the gang and it's comic relief minions.

Or maybe it's a single entity/mind, in that case each head it's just yet another limb of the individual, perhaps carrying the advantage that it can lose it's head X amount of times with no problem. Or it could also be that this unique personality is distributed (evenly or unevenly) among the heads, and as you cut them the creature loses intelligence/reflexes/ability/coherency or whatever.

[King Mir]

Having more autonomy to each hydra head would probably be good for the simple reason that it's something interesting that sets the hydra apart from a giant millipede.

Exactly how to make hydra heads act disjointedly is an open question, however.

[LordBaal]

Well a gigant millipede would be dead if you slice it's unique head, or at least it will be blind and, errhh deaf (do they have hearing?) and it wouldn't be able to "sniff for you" (don't know how to call the olfactory impaired).

I don't see the hydra not having each head working independently from up to a certain degree.